Phone as my GPS. Using highly specific google maps issues

Discussion in 'GPS 101 - Which GPS For Me' started by DynastySS, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. doggitter

    doggitter Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Oddometer:
    2,140
    Location:
    Elmira, Oar-agin

    I looked at a couple areas I know a little about and it does show the roads I'd expect to see.
    #21
  2. worwig

    worwig Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,536
    Location:
    Hog Mountain
    You may need OSMand+.
    Press and hold on the destinate and you should get a pop up.
    #22
  3. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Oddometer:
    4,579
    Location:
    alabama


    alabama (entire state) vector based map + contour lines + hillshading = 160Mb total, in three different files, good for about 200ft view on screen
    these look GREAT, street names do not pixelate, roads do not blur, it's raster/vector based, super neato stuff.

    alabama (entire state) image based (mapnick) = 3.2Gb, in file spread across zoom levels 10-16, good for about 400ft views on screen
    these look good, street names and contours will pixelate at higher zoom levels, say 16 x 400% digitally zoomed


    alabama, talledega national forrest, image based google terrain = 34Mb zoom levels 10-16
    alabama, TNF, image based mapnick = 40Mb zoom levels 10-16
    alabama, TNF, image based google satellite view = about 70Mb, 10-16
    alabama, TNF, vector based (found on the internets ;-) ) very nice vector based topo maps = 10Mb



    there are so many sources for maps, it is incredible to me. i'm finding new sources for vector based maps daily.

    i personally have no reservations about heading off a dirt road with just a vector based map to find a campsite where my buddies are already waiting. i may hit every dead end (btdt!) along the way, but that's part of the fun.
    #23
  4. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Oddometer:
    4,579
    Location:
    alabama
    three ways:

    long press, it pops up a GPS data box, touch that box and a new dialogue pops up, giving you the options of:
    directions to
    set as destination
    search near here
    share location
    etc


    same as before, but add waypoints to the routing, and you can select specific places along the route


    view a GPX file from the dialoge. you can choose to navigate along that path if you like.

    it's nifty
    #24
  5. doggitter

    doggitter Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Oddometer:
    2,140
    Location:
    Elmira, Oar-agin
    So let say I chose OSMand+ as a base to work off of, it will work with the government maps (MVUM or MUVM or whatever it is)? I can use it for nav? Anything it can't/won't do that I'll want it to?
    #25
  6. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Oddometer:
    4,579
    Location:
    alabama
    I'm looking for a usgs download for mvum, then I'll try it as an additional layer. do you have a link to the maps in question?

    navigation, yes
    could you define everything you need it to do in a list?
    #26
  7. Myway

    Myway Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,337
    Location:
    Knobby country
    This motorcycle appmode, how do I get this.
    Installed free osmand, but there is only profile general car bicycle pedestrian.

    I tried to search it, could not find it.

    What I did find.

    Nice that we can change all colors and thickness at all zoomlevels with the default vectormapbase, by using a XXX.render.xml mapstyle.

    So you can make your own map how you would like it. Overrule the default mapstyle.
    highway=track usally is a brown dashed thin line, zooming out it is more narrow and disappear, stile the motorways are thick and good visible. Now we can make motorways a different color say dark gray and make track a bright color thicker and show the on zoom out map, to get a more overview area and still see those track.

    we compare screenshot oruxmap and osmand, and say osmand oruxmap is good or bad.
    We must compare the software and say good or bad
    then
    we must compare maps, which we like most
    but keep in mind we can change that. by yourself if it are vector maps

    raster maps and tilemaps, are cooked, printed like a piece of paper. hardcoded.
    so far offline stand alone.




    @ohgood, which mapstyle do you use, can you share it.

    I believe in the routing style you can change to, did you do that to get a motorcycle routing.

    Or is this already in + version?
    #27
  8. doggitter

    doggitter Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Oddometer:
    2,140
    Location:
    Elmira, Oar-agin
    By plotting/making a route I mean a route using the roads I want to travel. I want to stay off hiways and secondary roads as much as I can most of the time, and of the times I've let a nav app do the routing it almost never picks a route I would like to use. In myviewranger I can click points on the map as I go where I want and it turns it into a route, while sitting here at the desktop. Even in Google Maps it's tough to do this as it always thinks it know more of where I need/want to go than I do. By that I mean I'll be happily laying out my route the way I want, I get 2/3 to 3/4 of the way thru it and WHAM! it changes the whole thing to a shorter route. Not what I want. And yes, I have settings changed to avoid hiways, still overrules what I do. It's dammned frustrating as I've redone some routes 3 and 4 times trying to make it work only to give up.
    #28
  9. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Oddometer:
    4,579
    Location:
    alabama
    I use the nightly versions, and paid for the + version because it rocks so good!

    Toy have to turn on debridement options on the settings, then you'll have the PROFILES option to pick the ones you want

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    To get a nightly, just Google "osmand nightlies download" and grab a recent one to try. Keep in mind, they are all betas in nature, and some work much better than others. This is the one I've been using for w little while with good success:
    [​IMG]

    As far as which map style I use , I believe that question is addressed towards oruxmaps, and I usually use 'hike n bike' on that one. On osmand I lemme it on HIGH CONTRAST usually.
    #29
  10. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Oddometer:
    4,579
    Location:
    alabama


    Google is optimizing the route as you go... I'm sure it's good (for someone), just not exactly what you're looking for.


    In osmand, try adding places via waypoints to the route. It's the only way I've found it will tour commodity off the highways if the distance is over 20 miles or so.
    #30
  11. Myway

    Myway Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,337
    Location:
    Knobby country
    Nightly build with motorcycle profile

    No I ment mapstyle in Osmand

    Street motorcycle routing, form A to B routing, fast to your destination. You can say like motorways first, button motorways
    Street motorcycle routing, via points, a more tourist route, unclassified ways,
    Allroad routing, via points but like more tracks, so button prefer tracks
    Offrroad routing, mostly track and path(singletrack). prefer track and path

    Would like to chance between these all.


    Map style in Osmand.

    [​IMG]

    Example:
    Standard map default and what i made yesterday the adv.render.xml, now showing different color thickness linestyle
    so a map is as good or bad, which mapstyle you choose/make

    green track darker yellow path

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    If you drive a prebaked gpx track your in a higher zoom mode.
    If you drive in a searching the area mode, you want to zoom out not losing the track and path on your screen.

    See here zooming out the default has not path and tracks
    mapstyle, did the trick, when the data is in the offline map you downloaded.

    the xml override the default style.


    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    See here zooming out the default has not path and tracks
    mapstyle, did the trick, wenn the data is in the offline map you downloaded, the xml override the default style.

    I do not no if there are access tags for motorcycle in the offline mapdata, if people tagged the track in osm
    with one of these four categorie, where motorcycle fit in

    you could give the track where it is forbidden to drive with a motorcycle a other color, say red (color as symbol for wrong no) (green for probably free yes)
    access=no
    vehicle=no
    motor_vehilce=no
    motorcycle=no


    http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=668937
    #31
  12. scfrank

    scfrank Old farts riding club.

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Oddometer:
    12,929
    Location:
    Upstate SC
    You need more waypoints and shorter routes. Turn. 500 mile trip into 3 routes.
    #32
  13. IdahoRenegade

    IdahoRenegade Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,689
    Location:
    Sagle, Idaho
    I have a few questions for you guys. I use CoPilot and have played with Backcountry Navigator on my tablet, so I'm not completely unfamiliar with the tech. I don't use my tablet on my bike due to it's cost and difficulty of mounting/protecting. I'm considering an S5 to replace my old Garmin Oregon for on and off road navigation. So, a few questions/comments.

    1. CoPilot I find adequate for my needs for on road use. But it's map set is not even close to accurate with regard to forest service roads. BN is better, but still not great for current maps. The USGS maps are not current; I'd like to find some Motor Vehicle Use Map database (forest service legal roads/trails) to import. Other probem with BN, while it shows your position and records tracks, it doesn't do autorouting. So...are there any apps that have decently accurate FS maps and that support autorouting on forest service roads? (Garmin actually is the best I've seen on this).

    2) My Oregon has a mini-USB connection. Keeping it functional on the bike has required some creative redneck engineering with velcro and elastic. Do any of the smartphone connectors function decently under the vibes of a bike? How long do newer smart phone batteries last when GPS is turned on? Will leaving a phone plugged in and charging when the bike isn't running come close to significantly draining the bike battery?

    3) How have your devices held up to the shock, vibe and general abuse of off road/gravel road use? Is there a good option for a shock resistant case and Ram mount for the S5? (I don't trust a finger mount).

    4) On longer trips when I'm camping I probably would throw my Android tablet in the tank bag, then use it for trip planning at camp. Here I have to show my ignorance....what is the best way to get data, say a GPX file between the 2 devices? Does bluetooth work, or do I need to cable them?
    #33
  14. worwig

    worwig Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,536
    Location:
    Hog Mountain
    1) Have you checked OSM maps online to see if they have the detail you need? If so, OSMand may do what you want. Or you can route on a PC in Basecamp, and transfer the route to the phone app.

    2a) My phone connector has been rugged. I recently had one fail at the charger end. But for $2.99, I don't care. I initially had a problem with rain water getting in the phone end when they were unused. That damages them. I now stick the end in a cover when it is unused. When plugged into the phone, I have the cable attached to my RAM mount just a few inches from the phone, so it doesn't move or unplug.
    2b) The GPS receiver itself does not take much power. Getting the software to render and display maps, and powering the display in sunlight, that takes serious power. You may be lucky to get three hours in bright sunlight. But you may get well over 24 hours of GPS tracking with no display. Assume you need to charge while using it. Also, the S5 has about a 10 watt/hour battery. Your bike battery is likely well over 100 watt/hours. So you can charge the phone well over 10 times from the bike. Even a VERY small motorcycle battery will be 50 watt/hours, or about 5 phone recharges.

    3) Never had a vibration issue in many, many, years of use with various phones. My S4 has at least 10,000 miles of use. Though I admit that only a couple of hundred has been off of pavement. I use a RAM universal finger grip mount. I tried the X-Grip. Hated it.

    4) Transfer data can be done by moving the microSD card from device to device. Or you can use an OTG cable to plug in a memory stick then copy to/from a memory stick. Yes, WiFi and Bluetooth, maybe even NFC, can be made to work, but can also be painful to set up and get working. I wouldn't bother. Online cloud storage would be easy, but of course easily worthless for what you want. You can buy portable hard disks intended to save photos and such on, if you wanted to go to that level of complexity and cost. I wouldn't, since the SD card or OTG cable would be so easy to do.
    #34
  15. doggitter

    doggitter Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Oddometer:
    2,140
    Location:
    Elmira, Oar-agin

    1: More than one app that does routing will allow you to use downloaded maps, which you want to do anyway so you don't have to rely on cell service.

    2: I have had a couple instances of power cutout and subsequent app shutdown so far on mine, but haven't delved into the fix for a solid power connection yet.

    3: No problems yet with my finger mount and Galaxy S3. I've run some real rough gravel roads and don't baby my travels much at all. I have had complete success with the finger style RAM as far as holding the phone. It grips really well and it's spring loaded in the way that grips tigher if is moves. One serious point on that though! The rubber tips come off REAL easy, after I ordered replacements for the one I brushed against and lost I glued them all on with weatherstrip adhesive, no more issue at all.

    4: This is beyond my limited knowledge.
    #35
  16. IdahoRenegade

    IdahoRenegade Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,689
    Location:
    Sagle, Idaho
    Looks like my concern about the charging plug is a moot point. Wireless charging available, I guess you have to replace the battery compartment cover.
    #36
  17. doggitter

    doggitter Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2014
    Oddometer:
    2,140
    Location:
    Elmira, Oar-agin
    Oh yeah. The battery will need charging in about 3-4 hours while in gps mode if not connected to power.

    It'll take real bad bike battery system to be killed by the amps charging a phone.
    #37
  18. worwig

    worwig Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,536
    Location:
    Hog Mountain
    Wireless charging isn't a great idea.
    Wireless charging is inefficient. That means it will run hotter, and charge less. In sunlight, heat may be a problem to the point of even shutting down the phone. Wireless charging will add heat to this.
    Plus, you are going to be lucky to get 2 watts through a wireless charger. In bright light running a map and GPS, you may be needing close to 4 watts, or even more at times.

    Then there is the issue of clamping the phone to the charger while riding.

    Not even worth investigating IMHO.
    #38
  19. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Oddometer:
    4,579
    Location:
    alabama
    1 our local forestry service mvm Maps are a year behind, I'd love to know where to get current maps, but they won't tell me :mad: I use osm for current roads, and also download topo and satellite for when the roads don't make sense. Osmand+, locus pro, and oruxmaps are my goto , with the first two doing self navigation in house, flawlessly. Oruxmaps does routing perfectly well but does not do tbt navigation yet. There are so many sources for free maps it's boggling.

    2 drz have crappy charging systems, and with the stock 5ah battery I have no issues for two or three days of phone charging. The phone works fine (galaxy s2 in a waterproof bag, Velcro to the bars) with or without the charge for many hours. The SCREEN is what kills life, not the gps antenna. Or being on the edge of service.

    3 I have a g1, g2, galaxy blaze, galaxy s2 (Att) and galaxyy s2 (T-Mobile) that have all gotten several thousand miles on each, on and off road, on a thumper. They don't have issues at all. I would just do the same with the s5, Pierce the bag with a charging cable and shoegoo it water tight at the charge hole. Haven't lost a phone yet this way.

    4 gpx data? I'd just Bluetooth it. Android does a great job of transferring dukes in the background, while plotting a new route or watching the days pictures in a slideshow. You can share maps too, but an adhock network is a better idea over WiFi. Usb2go even faster.

    Here are my applications in order of favor:
    Osmand+
    Oruxmaps
    Sygic or locus pro
    Google maps (they will kill Garmin when they go offline fully)
    The rest

    Go play with them, pick your favorite, ask for help. It's fun :thumbup:
    #39