Pimp's Rowdy 150

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by Pimpwerx, Apr 10, 2012.

  1. ABritOnMaui

    ABritOnMaui Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Oddometer:
    149
    Very weird! That is exactly where it should be and what it should look like lol. Very weird it has no way of turning it. As you say, it isn't an immediate concern if the scoot is running ok, however it is something you may need or want to adjust in the future (if you decide to take it up any mountains) or you notice it is running lean. There are ways of getting it to turn, using a dremel to make a bevel for a screwdriver would be one I guess. Replacing the entire carb would be another, given they aren't expensive. Very very weird it is not adjustable, I wonder if they set it correctly in the factory and do that to stop us messing it up? Then again they cannot know what altitude we would be using it at either.
    #21
  2. RustyStuff

    RustyStuff Been here awhile

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    971
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    Crakima,Wa

    The hole might have been pluged. Something the EPA requires to get emmissions compliance in the USA.
    Everything built for on road in the last 30 years is that way.
    #22
  3. Tarka

    Tarka Doesn't wave back.

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    Across the pond.

    That to my eyes is a pretty standard location for an engine drain bolt....if they`re not as the photo they`re central underneath or at the front next to the oil filter....and I reckon therein lies the mystery bolt 'unmystified' !

    I`m loving this thread!
    #23
  4. btcn

    btcn Long timer

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    2,880
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    Morgan Hill CA
    I don't read all the replies here but I read your posts on the bike.


    Youse doing a good job! These china bikes have some potential to be reasonable bikes, BUT, if you do that extra TLC. Youse likely to have a reasonable experance due to your efforts from day 1. Not 1/4 the quality of a Honda or a reputable scooter or motorcycle, but its still can be good!


    And man, don't complain about that speedo!:deal For a china scoot, with only 5 MPH off is great! Seriously. My Honda motorcycles read about that!:deal Nearly every Japanese Motorcycle reads somewhere between 5%-10% off.

    EXCEPT Honda scooters in my experance. My old 86 Elite 150 is within +/- 1MPH of both GPS and Radar.

    But, this will be a little slow. Expect to top out 55 MPH once broke in, maybe 60 MPH or so in decent conditions.
    #24
  5. Pimpwerx

    Pimpwerx Adventurer

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    22
    So, I learned that the fuel gauge actually works. I ran out of gas just about the second the gauge hit "E". Luckily, I was exactly one block from my apartment when it happened. Slightly embarrassing, but no worse for wear.

    As the guy from AAA put it, "How can you run out of gas on a motorcycle?" Well...besides being an idiot, I had bought a 2.5 gallon gas can, which I had deposites 2.1 gallons into on Monday. However, the bike was delayed until Tuesday, so I left the gas can sitting on the porch. It has a cap and valve, so I figured it was airtight. I poured the full can into the tank, but the fuel gauge only registered like 1/3 full. I only drove 80 miles or so, which is what I ballparked a third of a 3 gallon tank getting me, but I was still of the belief that I had poured-in around 2 gallons. Damn hubris. PEACE.
    #25
  6. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    I bought the oilhead in better days. I do okay now; but the days of being flush are over, at least for now.

    I've considered even selling the GS - but I don't want to; it's paid for and there's no telling whether I'll get a chance to own another. If the arthritis gets worse....WHEN it does...I'll sell and add to my stable of scoots; but for now I'll keep my memento of better days.

    No room in the budget for a used $4500 scoot, though.
    #26
  7. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    Unless they changed things even further...you have a red indicator to show excessive RPMS there. It's one of those warning lights that are not explained in my manual...maybe not yours. A red triangle with an exclamation mark.

    There may or may not be a rev limiter. I've never gotten it past the 10,000 mark - where the tach shows the redline.

    As for the gas gauge...apparently there's a binding or problem in the float mechanism. Takes time from when you add gas to when it shows full; and - looks like - takes time from when the tank runs out to where the float shows E.

    I have an electronic bar graph and it STILL has problems with showing correct level. :huh
    #27
  8. deezildennis

    deezildennis Its a what?

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    930
    Location:
    in the powa band
    Make sure you get a cover for it if you keep it outside. If you mentioned you planned to I must have missed it.


    Mine seems to be a little quicker out of the hole since I changed my cvt belt. The new one seemed less pliable than the stocker.

    I may play with the rollers as well or look into better pulleys.

    I did get a spare cvt cover and vented it though.
    #28
  9. Pimpwerx

    Pimpwerx Adventurer

    Joined:
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    Oddometer:
    22
    So...I'm 263 miles and 4 oil changes in now. I haven't updated in a while, because life's been busy. I also lost a memory card with some pics on it, so I'm short on images today.

    First oil change was out of the box. The second oil change was at 85 miles or so. I noticed flakes of metal. I guess that's normal. It turns out that mystery bolt is the second drain for the crankcase, after all. So I ended up performing a third oil change at 180 miles. I also changed the gear oil at this time. I noticed more metal flakes in the engine oil again, but not as much as the previous change. I used brake cleaner to remove it from the magnetic bolts. I also noticed metal flakes in the gear oil and cleaned those. When I'd ridden my bike back to my apartment, I noticed it was dripping oil. I didn't replace the washer on the second drain bolt, and it was warped. So the bolt didn't sit properly and I had a slow leak. This resulted in a fourth oil change the very next day...somewhere around 200 miles in.

    I currently have 263 miles on the bike, so I've got a good amount to report. First, the few pics I managed to snap last weekend.

    [​IMG]
    See the wrench sitting in the middle? I hooked into one of the fins on the drive face, and then used the kick stand rod as a stopper. This let me turn the variator nut without spinning the variator. I haven't quite figured out how to remove the clutch bell. I was kinda fatigued by the time I got to this, so I wasn't thinking straight. Any thoughts?

    FYI, when I removed the variator cover, the gasket tore. I was gentle too, and the bike has low miles. I'm pretty disappointed in that. It just tore in one place. Is it really that important given how many people vent their cases?

    Also, pictured is the stock belt. Let me know if it looks like it's too small. I thought it was supposed to be 842, but it's a 835 belt.

    [​IMG]
    I haven't researched changing brake fluid on these bikes, but I assume I have to. The rear brake fluid seems low. I don't know how to read the brake fluid indicators, and they change levels when I'm riding. I don't really know how to get fluid in and out of the reservoirs, so any advice is welcome. I'll just google it if necessary.

    [​IMG]
    I stripped her bare. I'm having some performance issues, so I took off all the panels, pulled the carb and adjusted the valves. It's sitting in my shed under the bike cover while I drag my feet cleaning the carb and consider purchasing performance upgrades.

    So here are my issues:

    1. Loss of power after running 5-10 miles. Once I hit that distance, if I go WOT for more than a few seconds, once I release the throttle, the engine either sputters and loses power, or just dies altogether. After that, it won't start up again unless I let it sit and cool down for some time. It can be anywhere from 5-20 minutes. I'm not sure how to kick start (I know...I'm stupid).

    I haven't researched this, but I thought I remembered reading something about adjusting the valves and setting the mixture and idle. This is why I just got annoyed and pulled everything off. I'm like, "this problem's getting fixed before I take it for another ride".

    2. Not really an issue, but holy crap crossing drawbridges is scary. Is there any threat of my bike skidding out from under me? I'm just trying to go in a straight line, and the bike is wobbling erratically. Any tips other than finding overpasses?

    3. I'll track is closely in the future, but I feel like my gas mileage is only 50-60mpg. During my first two oil changes, I was overfilling the crankcase, since I wasn't draining it completely. I don't know if this is responsible for the mileage.

    4. I have different diameters of fuel and vacuum hose. I'm gonna have to buy more of the stuff before I replace it all. I've also gotta track down more extra nuts and bolts than I thought as some stuff has rattled loose. Red loctite will be going on.

    Here are my fixes so far:

    1. I fixed the storage compartment, at least its inability to stay closed and locked. I took the box off and noticed the locking latch was bent and wasn't slotting into the locking hook on the box. So I took some pliers and made sure I bent i back into shape without damaging the latch. The real test will be if the storage compartment stays shut with my disc lock banging around inside.

    2. I rerouted some of the fuel and vacuum lines that just seemed tangled for no good reason. It's obvious some of these hoses were changed or added after others, because there's no logic to some of their routing. I still plan on replacing them all, but I figured rerouting was necessary anyway. It was an easy fix.

    3. I found the air/fuel screw. ABritOnMaui circled it in that pic. It's underneath that aluminum cap. I had to drill it out using a 1/4" bit. This was a bit nerve-racking. For one, I took off a little bit of the surrounding cast metal while I was drilling. I also felt like might have made a mistake, because I was drilling for so long. The cap is thicker than you might think. Be warned. I'll try to snap pics when I clean it out. It'll give you an idea of how deep the screw is in there. It's a PD24J carb. I'm just stoked I can tune the engine at least a little bit now.


    Other stuff of note:

    1. So I took the variator off (again, I'll try to snap pics) and it comes with 17g weights stock. I weighed them. I plan on starting off with lighter weights and tinkering once I'm back on the road.

    2. I pulled off the stock belt and it's a Gates Powerlink 835 20. WTF? Isn't that too short for the type of engine I have? I ordered a 842 20 belt on Amazon already. I'm not sure what to think. Should it be obvious if the belt is the wrong size?

    3. When I started taking it apart, I wanted to be cautious, but I got so annoyed I just went crazy. I've never taken an engine apart, but I was like, "welp...it's already giving me problems, what's the worst than can happen". So I decided to just go for it and popped the carb and valve cover off. I'm glad I did. It's very close to model airplane engines, and I've worked briefly with those. I'm tempted to try my own port and polish now. I have no fear of damaging anything on this bike now.

    That's it. I'll update as I go. PEACE.
    #29
  10. deezildennis

    deezildennis Its a what?

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    930
    Location:
    in the powa band
    Hmmm..

    There shouldn't be any need to mess with the clutch bell or the clutch shoes behind it with under 300 miles on it. I have well over 3000 on my rowdy and the clutch shoes look fine.

    Your running issue sounds to me like a vapor lock in the tank brought on by a faulty gas cap that isn't allowing the tank to vent. And not a valve clearence issue especially with that few miles.

    The 835 is the correct belt size for the rowdy. When I had mine in for the 2k checkup I asked to have them check the valve gap and it was in spec. I suggest not messing with them and make sure the tank is venting at the cap. Since the rowdy is on the heavy side of the 150cc bikes I also suggest keeping the heavy stock weights in the trans. I tried several different weights to just mess around and it didn't do anything.but affect the performance of the bike.

    As for the hoses .. I left mine alone since they seem to function and be of good quality.

    The cvt cover doesn't really need the gasket. But when I replaced my belt when it wasn't needed..... I just ran a thin bead of black silicone around the cover and slapped her back on.

    I did away with my vented cvt cover and put the stocker back on since I ride mine rain or shine and big puddles of water tended to make the belt slip If water got into it. I have ran 100 plus miles in a day non stop and though the cover is hot the belt isn't affected that I can tell even with the wife sitting on the back with me. Never run with the cover off since it is a structural part of the case. Lots a of gy6 ruckus mod guys have cracked their case that way and its a sure fire Way to trash your block and causing a need for a new engine assembly.

    To kickstart it, put the bike on the center stand and make sure the key is on and the run switch in on, flip out the kick peg, hold one of the brake handles in and kick the lever down in one fluid motion while standing faceing the rear of the bike and use your right foot. It'll start.

    Find the vent hole for the cap and make sure it is venting. New caps can be had but yours is probably stopped up. My brand new triumph had the same issue so it does happen.
    #30
  11. Pimpwerx

    Pimpwerx Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Oddometer:
    22
    Sweet! I've heard the term vapor lock, but never knew what it was. Thanks for the explanation and the suggestion. I'm gonna get on it tomorrow morning. Also, thanks for the kick start instructions.

    I'm only trying to find a way to remove the clutch nut because I know I'm gonna change that part eventually. I was just gonna take some stuff apart and see how it works.

    I adjusted the valve gaps already. The intake was fine at .003, and I widened it to .004. The exhaust was less than, 003 (didn't mind measuring the specific gap), and I widened that out to .004. It's just a number I've seen used a lot online, so I figured what the hell.

    The OEM hoses are fine, but I'd rather use clear polyurethane fuel line and silicone vacuum hose. I just hope I don't get something wrong because I'm trying to be too fancy.

    I'll clear that vent hole and hopefully get the bike back up before I head out of town this weekend. I have a cover for the bike, btw. Nelson-Rigg. I like it. Waterproof and I can put it on the bike hot. I'll let you know if my running problems persist. PEACE.
    #31
  12. deezildennis

    deezildennis Its a what?

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    930
    Location:
    in the powa band
    You need to get a cheap electric impact wrench so you don't start breaking variator fins off and such. I think harbor freight has a 110 volt for $40 right now.

    I have 3 different spring rates that I have messed with in my clutch and again I went back to the stock springs. I cannot stand loosing any take off power. I can blast off pretty quick and I hate really messing with anything that will screw with it..

    I really tried to stick with the idea "if it ain't broke don't fix it" with my rowdy. Id like to do exhaust and carb rejett but the Damn thing runs so well that I am hesitant to do much more than maintenance..
    #32
  13. Pimpwerx

    Pimpwerx Adventurer

    Joined:
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    22
    Thanks for the update in your thread, deezildennis. I've had my Rowdy sitting in the shed, still apart for a month or so now. Weddings and job interviews and work have hampered my time to work on it. Oh...and lots of bad weather to even it all out. Either too hot or too wet. Indoor garages are a blessing if you have one...I don't.

    Anyway, I will be riding it in a day or two. Yesterday, the final piece of vacuum hose showed up, so I finished changing all the fuel line and vacuum hose (all but the fat ones). I cleaned the carb (unnecessary) and dropped in some 12g rollers so I have a mix of 12 and 17 in there for a weight of 14.5g. I assume my acceleration will improve to the detriment of top-speed. I'll see how I like it. I'm really just tinkering right now.

    I do have an issue. That 835 belt is not going back on with the clutch still on there. I have to figure out how to either put it back on without removing the clutch bell, put on the 842 belt I ordered accidentally, but which looks too big for the stock variator, or find a reliable way to remove the clutch bell now. I think I'm gonna have to figure out how to remove that clutch bell.

    I recharged the battery and hooked it up for a test. Started and idled easily. :freaky I wasn't sure I had put it back together properly, but I did. One issue, though, is that when I had it disassembled, I loosened one of the wiring harnesses and as I was pushing the bike into the shed, they got caught under the back wheel and one of the wires was pulled-out. It came out of the loom, and it was connected to the tail assembly. I discovered it's the signal cable for the brake light, so now I'll have to open the loom up and trace back to its origin. That's a relatively easy fix. Live and learn. Don't push your bike with wires dangling off it.

    One thing. I didn't get to look at it closely, but I think I saw air in the fuel lines when it was running. I put in translucent fuel line, and I'm glad I did. I can see all the fuel paths and see if any air is getting in. There shouldn't be air in the system after it's had a chance to idle for a little bit, right?

    Anyway, put the belt and CVT cover back on, reconnect the signal wire for the brake light and then set the idle and fuel mixture. Then...I get to see if I've actually fixed the problem with loss of power. Either way, it's been pretty educational. Sorry for no pics. I've forgotten my camera each time, and my phone camera is not working properly right now. I'll snap a pic before I put the panels on so I can show what I've done. PEACE.
    #33
  14. Pimpwerx

    Pimpwerx Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Oddometer:
    22
    So deezildennis was spot-on with his diagnosis. My gas cap isn't venting properly. I called Motobuys to request a new gas cap. We'll see if that helps. In the meantime, I tried a couple fixes.

    I looked online and people said I can drill my own vents. My gas cap has a rubber gasket, so they suggest drilling outside the gasket. I widened the two holes already there and added two more.

    [​IMG]

    The red is the two holes I added. The blue are the original ones. I widened the two smaller ones. The yellow marks are where I drilled holes in the rubber gasket (just the gasket) today.

    With just the red and blue done last night, I drove around about 20-30 miles and got maybe twice as far as I usually get before it would lose power and die on me. So I ended up having to remove the gas cap and restart the bike. As a result, I decided to add the holes to the gasket, which I've read works. I'll give it another test tonight, as I go out to watch the Heat game. If that doesn't work, my last resort will be to remove the rubber gasket altogether. I don't see its purpose other than keeping gas in the tank.

    One other change I made was removing the locking bolt from the gas cap. I'm tired of having to take the key out of the ignition in order to remove the gas cap. It's a nuisance, especially when I'm troubleshooting this recent problem. The cap seals just fine without the bolt. All it required was me removing the two screws seen in the picture, popping the housing off, removing the bolt and putting it all back together. I hope this helps.

    Everything else is fine. I still have to find a way to reconnect the wire for the tail light, that I popped loose. For now, it lights up, which is good enough for me. I pulled the loom off all the way to the gas tank and still no luck, so I might have to reroute that wire from the handles. That might wait for when I buy a new dash (looking at Trail Tech) and upgrade the electronics. PEACE.

    EDIT: I took carb cleaner to it the same time I cleaned the carb. It didn't seem to do any good.
    #34
  15. Bearcat

    Bearcat burg1

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    Aug 29, 2009
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    105
    Location:
    Delaware/Florida/Pa
    Great thread as I'm thinking of getting one of those clones.
    #35
  16. Pimpwerx

    Pimpwerx Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
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    22
    I changed the gear oil and the engine oil today. 922 miles on the odometer. The gear oil was really grey and silty with metal shavings. Impressive given I have those magnetic bolts from the Prima kit. The engine oil was really dark, as well. I didn't do anything else particularly interesting. I didn't take pics, because I don't have a working camera right now.

    I love the bike, and I can tell I'm getting more power from the engine. I haven't used my phone GPS to check the top speed, but it should be over 50mph easily now. I get a lot of comments out on the road. It doesn't matter if it's pedestrians or people in other cars. A lot of people ask me what kind of bike it is, and tell me they like it. The funniest comment I heard was from a guy in a moving truck who was talking to the person next to him. He said, "I don't know what the hell that is. I've never seen anything like that in my life." I LOL'd.

    I don't regret getting it in red now. Black was my first choice, but this color looks the part. PEACE.
    #36
  17. fullmetalscooter

    fullmetalscooter Let me take this duck off

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
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    3,307
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    BC
    Good thread and it's great you ve taken the time to really go through you new scooter so you don't end up going it's a peace of china crap. Look good. I wonder if the gears in the tranny are just not cut very well with the right tolerances which might be the reason for the metal shaving. Then again it might be just the bearing around the drive shaft or nothing at all. Even if the trans failed the parts are dirt cheap and easy to replace . The bearing is n't fun to replace with out a bearing puller and driver I think.
    #37
  18. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    1,118
    Location:
    Western Montana
    Guess I'll jump in here with my own parallel review.

    I've put about 1300 (Chinese-speedo) miles on my RucKlone. Meantime, sold the BMW; used the proceeds for a Burgman 650 and...(drum roll) a fer-real Big Ruckus!

    It's been an interesting side-by-side. The PS250 just oozes quality; it's solid; stable; quiet. But it uses more gas than I expected (65 mpg) and...I can't put my finger on why; but the riding position is somewhat different and not as comfortable.

    There are actual differences in the frame. The forward tubing that wraps around the instrument cluster, rises an inch higher on the Big Ruckus than on the Rowdy. That difference may also be reflected in the triple-tree.

    I haven't measured to see what the seat height is, or seat-to-footrest distances and relationships. But I've been on both of them for extended times; the Rowdy is a perfect in-town ghetto cruiser; and the Big Ruckus perfect to go to work (radiator is shielded so driveway mud isn't a risk; other issues as well).

    I was going to sell the Rowdy. Even had a buyer lined up for it; he's scrambling for the money ($900). But now I'm thinking....I just don't want to SELL!!

    Not with 95 mpg and a relaxed rising position. Even the slow speed...ya get used to. Slower, on a naked bike, means less wind turbulence; less flapping of my double-chin. It's relaxing, unless traffic is heavy and impatient. I'm getting routes down, how to avoid.

    But so far...with my two-scoot China experiment, this one's the winner. The Burgman clone has a rod journal knocking; it's probably a goner; but the Rowdy gy6 keeps on rolling.
    #38
  19. wanna bECO

    wanna bECO Been here awhile

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    Jul 3, 2008
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    727
    Location:
    Third stone from the sun
    casey.... Pics or it didn't happen.
    #39
  20. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,118
    Location:
    Western Montana
    Have to wait a day or two. Busy tomorrow.

    I'll have a class photo for ya...
    #40