POLL: stator / alternator failure on F800GS/F650GS twins please vote!

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by JRWooden, May 6, 2012.

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Please vote your situation & mileage AT FAILURE or multiple failures

  1. NO failure - current mileage 0 - 20K miles

  2. NO failure - current mileage 20K - 40K miles

  3. NO failure - current mileage 40K - 60K miles

  4. NO failure - current mileage 60K+ miles

  5. YES - one failure at: 0 - 20K miles

  6. YES - one failure at: 20K - 40K miles

  7. YES one failure at: 40K - 60K miles

  8. YES one failure at: 60K+ miles

  9. MULTIPLE FAILURES

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. rockinrog

    rockinrog Long timer

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    17/54 over 20K...about 31%
    #21
  2. Woody2627

    Woody2627 Skinny Decaf Latte Thanks

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    I remember reading on a forum, maybe f800riders, that if hold the right hand indicator on for around 10 seconds, then hit the cancel button it turns the headlights off until you restart the bike. I think it may have even been one of your posts, JR.
    #22
  3. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    Your memory is excellent ... :clap
    Far better than mine!

    Alas, at least on my bike, (IIRC) the turn-off the headlight trick only works when you are stationary, and it automatically comes back on when you move a short distance.

    A friend suggested turning off ABS to save a bit more battery capacity, and I'm sure it would give a bit more range.
    #23
  4. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    Sigh.................................. :cry
    #24
  5. Woody2627

    Woody2627 Skinny Decaf Latte Thanks

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    Not much use then is it, back to removing the globe. My memory was assisted by the fact that I suspect we may have the same surname;)
    #25
  6. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    Yeah... I was surprised about how the trick reverses it's self ... :lol3

    Surname here is Wooden .... ;-)
    Old Europe - my ancestors took a ship across in the late 1700's ...
    RUTA 40 eh? ... THAT would be a trip.....
    #26
  7. PatoM

    PatoM Adventurer

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    Location:
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    2011 800GS, 20k miles no problems... yet!
    #27
  8. EnderTheX

    EnderTheX Dirt Dreams

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    Mine failed at 17k miles... Very inconvenient! :puke1
    #28
  9. rockinrog

    rockinrog Long timer

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    I guess you could look at the bright side---It was still under warranty.
    #29
  10. CheckerdD

    CheckerdD Long timer

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    Dave Rankine, Reno NV
    I would be really interested in knowing how many of the "failures" are from people who have over taxed the system. The stock system puts out 400 something watts. Electric vest, PIAAS, GPS, radar detector, hand warmers and your near that point. Put on your turn signal and, honk the horn, and PSAPP. You have cooked it. Dave
    #30
  11. vtbob

    vtbob wanderer

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    The BMW system puts out full power (essentially some hair splitting possible) all the time and the regulator shunts the unneeded power to ground. This type of design is both cheaper and lighter than a field regulated alternator,..ie what you have in your car.
    #31
  12. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    Dave:
    The way the stock regulator designed, the stator is forced to work at maximum output all of the time,
    regardless of the electrical load applied. It is called a "shunt" style regulator and any surplus current above demand is just sent to ground, .... the stator has a tough job irregardless of applied load....
    #32
  13. JoelWisman

    JoelWisman Long timer

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    I stuck a vote in there because a guy that bought one of my old F8s had his stator fail at 29,000 miles. He is not a member and doesn't like forums, so no chance of double counting him.
    #33
  14. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    Thanks Joel!

    I'm just getting back from a 2000 mile trip up and down the east coast!

    Just as a general update, ElectroSport is committed to building an aftermarket stator for the twins.
    They have prototype parts on order which they will test on arrival.
    Since testing has not started yet and they don't know if any design iterations will be needed,
    the schedule for general availability is not known. I did feed their engineering team the results of all the testing and observations done here on ADVRider, so I would hope this to be a good option when it becomes available.
    #34
  15. zaner32

    zaner32 In over my head

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    Moncton
    Stator failed at about 20K miles. My vote was posted.:norton
    #35
  16. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    I've swapped email with Electrosport again....

    Their design includes a better grade of wire (for lower resistance and thus lower internal heating), as well as a different winding design and a few other enhancements. I'm hopefull that their design could resolve our problem. They will begin testing soon.

    Just to re-iterate: I strongly recommend all owners to install one of the many available devices that monitor system voltage so as to have advance warning of charging system failure.
    #36
  17. Lleo F

    Lleo F n00b

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    Hello ADVRiders,

    I read this post last few days after the failure catch my bike - voltage regulator (R/R) (2007 F800ST - has the same part number of stator/Generator likes yours bikes).
    My F800 is only 15K km (9.5K in US miles) and out of warranty :wink:.

    Last few days I explore multi-forums and found that the same failure part 12317690427 (Generator) was found on the following vehicles, (R/R too):

    K71 F 800 S (0216,0226) N/A, , USA (0226) : Generator
    K71 F 800 ST (0234,0244) N/A, , USA (0244) : Generator
    K71 F 800 S (0216,0226) N/A, , Europe (0216) : Generator
    K71 F 800 ST (0234,0244) N/A, , Europe (0234) : Generator
    K72 F 650 GS (0218,0228) N/A, , USA (0228) : Generator
    K72 F 800 GS (0219,0229) N/A, , USA (0229) : Generator
    K72 F 650 GS (0218,0228) N/A, , Europe (0218) : Generator
    K72 F 800 GS (0219,0229) N/A, , Europe (0219) : Generator
    K72 F 800 GS (0225) N/A, , Europe (0225) : Generator
    K73 F 800 R (0217,0227) N/A, , USA (0227) : Generator
    K73 F 800 R (0215) N/A, , Europe (0215) : Generator
    K73 F 800 R (0217,0227) N/A, , Europe (0217) : Generator

    At dozen of forums where subject is all F Models there is so many complains for Alternator/stator and Voltage Regulator.
    This part is too expensive, and should be replace by BMW even if you're after warranty, or only some labour fee.

    Best Regards
    Lléo F

    P.S. Please forgive me for my basic english, I'm good speaker but creepy writer.

    P.S. II
    Part 61312346550 (Voltage regulator) was found on the following vehicles:
    K14 F 650 CS 02 (0174,0184) N/A, , USA (0184) : Voltage regulator
    K14 F 650 CS 04 (0177,0187) N/A, , USA (0187) : Voltage regulator
    K14 F 650 CS 02 (0174,0184) N/A, , Europe (0174) : Voltage regulator
    K14 F 650 CS 04 (0177,0187) N/A, , Europe (0177) : Voltage regulator
    K71 F 800 S (0216,0226) N/A, , USA (0226) : Voltage regulator
    K71 F 800 ST (0234,0244) N/A, , USA (0244) : Voltage regulator
    K71 F 800 S (0216,0226) N/A, , Europe (0216) : Voltage regulator
    K71 F 800 ST (0234,0244) N/A, , Europe (0234) : Voltage regulator
    K72 F 650 GS (0218,0228) N/A, , USA (0228) : Voltage regulator
    K72 F 800 GS (0219,0229) N/A, , USA (0229) : Voltage regulator
    K72 F 650 GS (0218,0228) N/A, , Europe (0218) : Voltage regulator
    K72 F 800 GS (0219,0229) N/A, , Europe (0219) : Voltage regulator
    K72 F 800 GS (0225) N/A, , Europe (0225) : Voltage regulator
    K73 F 800 R (0217,0227) N/A, , USA (0227) : Voltage regulator
    K73 F 800 R (0215) N/A, , Europe (0215) : Voltage regulator
    K73 F 800 R (0217,0227) N/A, , Europe (0217) : Voltage regulator
    R13 F 650 GS 00 (0172,0182) N/A, , USA (0182) : Voltage regulator
    R13 F 650 GS 04 (0175,0185) N/A, , USA (0185) : Voltage regulator
    R13 F 650 GS Dakar 00 (0173,0183) N/A, , USA (0183) : Voltage regulator
    R13 F 650 GS Dakar 04 (0176,0186) N/A, , USA (0186) : Voltage regulator
    R13 F 650 GS 00 (0172,0182) N/A, , Europe (0172) : Voltage regulator
    R13 F 650 GS 04 (0175,0185) N/A, , Europe (0175) : Voltage regulator
    R13 F 650 GS Dakar 00 (0173,0183) N/A, , Europe (0173) : Voltage regulator
    R13 F 650 GS Dakar 04 (0176,0186) N/A, , Europe (0176) : Voltage regulator
    R131 G 650 GS 11 (0188,0189) N/A, , USA (0189) : Voltage regulator
    R131 G 650 GS 10 (0171) N/A, , Europe (0171) : Voltage regulator
    R131 G 650 GS 11 (0135) N/A, , Europe (0135) : Voltage regulator
    R131 G 650 GS 11 (0188,0189) N/A, , Europe (0188) : Voltage regulator
    R131 G 650 GS 09 (0178,0179) N/A, , USA (0179) : Voltage regulator
    R131 G 650 GS 11 (0188,0189) N/A, , USA (0189) : Voltage regulator
    R131 G 650 GS 09 (0178,0179) N/A, , Europe (0178) : Voltage regulator
    R131 G 650 GS 09 (0180) N/A, , Europe (0180) : Voltage regulator
    R131 G 650 GS 10 (0171) N/A, , Europe (0171) : Voltage regulator
    R131 G 650 GS 11 (0135) N/A, , Europe (0135) : Voltage regulator
    R131 G 650 GS 11 (0188,0189) N/A, , Europe (0188) : Voltage regulator
    R134 G 650 GS Sert?o (0136, 0146) N/A, , USA (0146) : Voltage regulator
    R134 G 650 GS Sertao (0136, 0146) N/A, , Europe (0136) : Voltage regulator
    R134 G 650 GS Sertao (0137) N/A, , Europe (0137) : Voltage regulator
    R134 G 650 GS Sert?o (0136, 0146) N/A, , USA (0146) : Voltage regulator
    R134 G 650 GS Sertao (0136, 0146) N/A, , Europe (0136) : Voltage regulator
    R134 G 650 GS Sertao (0137) N/A, , Europe (0137) : Voltage regulator
    #37
  18. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    Lléo - thanks for your post!
    Your English is much better than my Polish would be I can assure you of that! :lol3

    I guess the F800S & F800ST do have the same issue this is a shame!

    To summarize the possible fixes ... I think we have:


    1. The oil cooling modification to the flywheel (Buell is doing this in their "works" )
      It has the possibility of compromising engine lubrication (will it ... I have no idea... but there's a chance).
      I think this will fix the stator issue ... even a modest amount of oil for cooling should drop the temp. of the stator enough to keep the insulation from failing.. someone would need to measure temperatures of the stator in use before and after the modification to confirm...
    2. I'll have to find the link, but someone from Buell was drilling small holes around the perimeter of their flywheel to promote air circulation thus cooling the stator ... this should help, but I have no idea if it will totally fix the problem ... again ... someone would need to measure temperatures of the stator in use before and after the modification to confirm...
    3. The series style R/R.
      We have several riders using this successfully.
      IMHO, it has the possibility of causing issues with the CANBus (will it ... I have no idea... but there's a chance).
    4. BMW's new open flywheel design, which may also include changes to the stator
      I'm pretty confident that this will work, and is a fully supported fix, but alas a very expensive if out of warranty.
    5. "Detuning" the stator - Joel and I kicked this around - if small resistors were added in series with each of the three stator leads (say 0.1 or 0.2 ohms) this would reduce the output of the stator and thus reduce the I^2*R heating of the stator coils potentially fixing the problem ... Albeit at the expense of reduced output by the alternator. Perhaps reducing the out put from 400W to something like 350W. This modification could be done so as to make it easily reversible for winter riding or heavy electrical loads... again testing required to confirm...
    6. As I've mentioned somewhere, I have reported the details of our stator issues to ElectroSport a company that mfg. stators, and they have a design in test that they believe will fix the problem. If their testing works out, this is probably the cheapest and most reliable fix - at less than $150 USD.
      I'll send my contact an e-mail today asking for an update on this............
    Ok ... did I miss anything?
    Jim
    #38
  19. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    Folks:

    As some of you already know, I have been talking to Electrosport about the stator issues with our bikes and fed them the technical details of the issue some months back - I just got word from my contact there as to the results of the testing of their prototype replacement stator unit -- engineered to overcome the defects in the OEM unit. Here's what he says:

    Testing went well and we're making a good sized (production) batch. We are hoping to have them available in a few weeks for regular sale. We changed the winding set up and a lowered internal resistance of the wire/winding which helps a lot in keeping the stator cooler.

    Procom Engineering / ElectroSport
    66 Maxwell, Irvine, CA 92618
    PH: (949) 748-6338
    www.electrosport.com
    info (at) electrosport.com

    I don't want to post his name here on open forum but he is the guy that answers queries to the e-mail address above... or you can PM me for his name. I'm just a bit nervous about posting it publicly. For those of us out of warranty, I think this could be a very good option ... prices are not available as yet, but should be less than $150 USD.

    Jim

    PS: Just for the record: I have no affiliation or financial relationship with Electrosport
    #39
  20. EasyRiding

    EasyRiding n00b

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2010
    Oddometer:
    5
    Very disappointing... Mine was at exactly 54000km.. Had to tow twice before BMW agent diagnosed a stator fault.

    - From Singapore
    #40