Problem with oil circulating?

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by SUVslayer, May 21, 2012.

  1. SUVslayer

    SUVslayer Been here awhile

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    So here's the story: 06 950 Adventure, with 30K. The bike's been parked for the winter, and finally I got around to digging it out. Gave it an oil change - cleaned the flat screen underneath, the cone screen in the reservoir and a new oil filter. Put in 2.5 liters, ran if for a minute or two, checked level and topped it off. I rode the bike about 100 miles yesterday with no problems whatsoever. Checked the level a couple of times throughout, looked for leaks, and everything seemed A-ok.

    So today I start it up, and the initial clackity clack doesn't exactly go away, and a moment later the oil light comes on. Turned it off, checked the oil level, tried again - still the same. Why would it do this overnight?

    The one nefarious thing I've noticed is that when I check the oil level now, it's high - like oil is getting trapped where the dipstick is and not circulating. Any ideas?
    #1
  2. Sumi

    Sumi Long timer

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    Lay bike on right side, pull oil filter and examine for waves or if it's already collapsed:)
    Put bike on sidestand, pull outer clutch cover, and examine it for milkshake..
    Maybe it's the WP acting up..
    post pictures:)

    Have you turned off the petcock for the night? Do you have the stock fuel pump? Maybe the needle valves are leaking, filling the crankcase with petrol - if you pull the outer clutch cover to inspect for milkshake, you'll probably get oil/petrol pouring out from here, if thats the case (petrol in the crankcase)..
    #2
  3. traveltoad

    traveltoad Aaron S

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    Sumi's ideas are a good place to start.

    If there is that much petrol in the oil... you will probably be able to smell it.
    #3
  4. SUVslayer

    SUVslayer Been here awhile

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    Ok, I'll look into that tomorrow. And I'll shut off petcocks tonight.
    That's a good question on the fuel pump. For some reason I thought that had been replaced by PO, but I'm not seeing paperwork on it. I'll check for fuel in the oil tomorrow.

    One thing I forgot to mention, there were 2 or 3 times on the ride yesterday where there was a momentary lag in power, like it was starved for fuel. Only a hiccup each time, and then nothing else... but maybe it was indicative of a pending problem. Maybe I'm lucky I made it home!
    #4
  5. OtownMike

    OtownMike Electron Pusher

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    I had the same problem. I went to start it one morning and the same thing. With mine it turned out to be the check valve at the bottom of the oil tank (on the outlet hose) getting stuck. I replaced that and havent had the problem since.
    #5
  6. SUVslayer

    SUVslayer Been here awhile

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    Thanks Otown, if I don't have a collapsed oil filter and soup in the case I'll look there. Rain outside today, so didn't open the bike up to look. Miss my old garage!
    #6
  7. BoulderGuy

    BoulderGuy out ridin'....

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    If you changed the oil, put in 2.5 Liters and ran it for 1 or 2 minutes and then "topped it off" you would not have put enough oil in and were probably getting a false reading. The bike takes 2.5 Liters, run for 4 minutes and then add another 1/2 liter. Mine takes even a bit more to get the dipstick to read between middle and 3/4. And yes, if the oil light still keeps coming on and the dipstick still reads high check the oil filter for waves and keep an eye on the coolant level.
    #7
  8. midfat

    midfat wholesome dirtiness

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    Very interested in this. A nearly identicle problem plagued me two week back. Fresh oil, rode a hundred miles, no leaks, then sudden loss of power and oil light. I dropped the bike on its side and checked the filter. Perfect, no signs of water damage. To be sure, I pulled clutch cover. Perfect. No signs of milkshake. Tried starting the bike again, and again oil light warning and lots of clickity-clack. I dropped it back on its side and pulled the filter. Put the cover back on and ran it momentarily without the filter. Ran flawlessly with no warning light. I too experienced the high oil level in the reservoir. It was as if oil was flowing in, but not back out.

    I actually spoke to the previous owner and confirmed he did the WP upgrade just before I bought the bike. That was less than 2000 miles ago.

    I'm still stumped, but I'm going to try new oil and filter and see how far I get.
    #8
  9. DirtyADV

    DirtyADV Long timer

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    There is a "spring loaded ball valve" (not sure that is the correct name for it) that sits under the oil tank preventing oil from running down unless the pump is sucking it down.

    And there is also a filter screen in the oil tank and if that is clogged.


    /Johan
    #9
  10. SUVslayer

    SUVslayer Been here awhile

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    Update: I checked the oil filter and it looked ok. No waves, and the oil around it looked good. Turned the bike around and opened the clutch cover. It looked like this:

    [​IMG]

    The oil looked good, no soup. But when I looked at the cover, I found this:

    [​IMG]

    Not a lot, but suspect for sure.

    I closed it up and checked the oil level. But after being on its side the oil level barely touched the dipstick. I knew there was oil in it, so I took the plunge and figured I'd try starting it - hey, it broke itself overnight, so maybe it could fix itself overnight too :dunno And sure enough - no oil light!

    I let it idle for maybe 20 seconds, thinking gee maybe I can go for a ride tonight after all... Shut it down and checked the oil level, and it was right where it should be. EXCEPT:

    [​IMG]

    (Crappy iphone pic) The oil looked murky dripping off the dipstick; anyway, not like new oil should look.

    So what say gurus? Water pump? Any thoughts?
    #10
  11. 1stiski

    1stiski Ride that nasty thing

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    There is some foaming going on with the oil too, once it gets hot the foaming goes away,, that milky look could be a little bit of the foam... Just saying. BUT you definately have mositure in your case with that clutch cover photo, it could be just that, though, not your pump, but short distance rides that don't heat the motor enough to burn off typical moisture buildup. Once again, Just saying.
    #11
  12. SUVslayer

    SUVslayer Been here awhile

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    I was wondering that. I'll go out and look at the oil again and see if it's cleared itself up.
    As I said, it seems a little odd since I rode the bike 100 miles and had no problems, then the next day the oil light.

    Edit: Oil looks somewhat better now that it's settled.
    #12
  13. OtownMike

    OtownMike Electron Pusher

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    Sounds more and more like that check valve, same one Dirty950 was talking about a few posts ago. Maybe laying it on its side put enough pressure on the ball valve to let it open again. It seemed like the nytril gasket that the ball seats in on mine got worn and the ball would stick. I fixed it once by taking the valve off the bottom of the tank and just pushing it down to unseat it. It ran fine for a few months and did it again. I replaced the valve after that and havent had the problem since. I think the gasket is available as a separate part, but I just did the whole thing. No probs since.
    #13
  14. SUVslayer

    SUVslayer Been here awhile

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    I think maybe another ride is in order to see how it fares. Thanks for help all.
    #14
  15. Alleycatdad

    Alleycatdad Unbunch yer panties!

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    Stay close to home, but do enough miles to get the bike thoroughly warm for long enough to evap out any condensation. I'm pretty sure that's the source of the goo on your clutch cover, especially since the bike's been sitting.

    S
    #15
  16. SUVslayer

    SUVslayer Been here awhile

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    Boy can you say no time to work on bike or ride?

    FINALLY getting back to this, and after pulling the check valve, it didn't seem to have any issues at all. What I did notice and I believe the reason the oil isn't circulating is that the inner screen (inside oil reserve, at check valve) was all gunked up with dark sludge. Stuck my finger into the reserve, and there was more.
    #16
  17. TA-Zappa

    TA-Zappa Been here awhile

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    I'm no mechanic but as far as I know if you have old used oil (like normal oil who "turns" black) and you let it sit for a longer period of time. The residue (sp?) in the oil will fall down to the bottom of the container (bottle or oiltank) and I guess that's your greasy black sludge you are mentioning.

    Normally you should, if you are closed to your service limit, change the oil BEFORE you hibernate the bike for the winter not after. Then you will have fresh oil in the bike during the winter and any residue that exist in the oil will not be able to create the sludge.

    I guess there is more then one thread in this forum talking about oil and how it works.

    If there is anyone who has more knowledge in this area please chime in and correct me. I'm most likely wrong here... :rofl

    Cheers,
    Zappa
    #17
  18. midfat

    midfat wholesome dirtiness

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    I had less than 1500 on a new WP, yet was plagued by contaminated oil. Thought surely it could not be the seal. Ultimately decided to pull the seal. Found coolant behind shaft seal. Moral of the story is that the seal is hyper fragile. My guess is previous owner may have damaged the seal when installed. New seal installed and so far so good. Fingers crossed.
    [​IMG]
    #18
  19. WeekEnder

    WeekEnder Going nowhere fast

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    Zappa is right about changing the oil before you put the bike away. You may need to clean the oil tank to get rid of the black stuff before you put the bike on the road this year. It will not clean itself with new oil no matter how many times you change it. Good luck!
    #19
  20. SUVslayer

    SUVslayer Been here awhile

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    Zappa, thanks for pointing out my laziness and neglect to the world!
    I think you have an excellent point.The oil wasn't that old when it went in for the winter, but not new either. I'll see about cleaning the reservoir out and see where that gets me. Cheers!
    #20