Project '71 ('73?) CL350... fuel injection and electronic spark control?

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by toplessFC3Sman, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. Mr. Vintage

    Mr. Vintage Family Dude

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    :lurk
    #21
  2. bgoodsoil

    bgoodsoil Dare to be Stupid

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    I love crazy projects like this
    #22
  3. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Oddometer:
    68
    half the throttle body with a part of the fuel rail on top.
    [​IMG]

    Opening up the integrated idle control valves on the cut-down actuator
    [​IMG]

    Another view of the throttle bodies with the cable pull in front and the TPS on the far side
    [​IMG]

    And the cut-down and re-welded fuel rail to fit just one bank:
    [​IMG]

    I just realized that I dont have any pics of the bike its going on, so I'll try to get those today or tomorrow when I bring it in for storage
    #23
  4. LoneStrom

    LoneStrom Been here awhile

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    Looking good! How does the spacing between throttle bodies compare to the spacing of the intake ports?
    #24
  5. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

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    I haven't measured precisely yet, but from what I remember, the intake ports are about an inch to 1 1/2" further apart than the bore spacing of the manifolds, so I'll either need to get creative with the plumbing or cut apart and extend the idle valve actuator, throttle butterfly pivot rod and fuel rail. I'd like to avoid this, but it may be necessary to ensure that the injectors are spraying onto the valves and not just pooling fuel.

    The biggest worry of mine is the power requirement of the fuel pump, injectors and ECU, and how this compares to the alternator output. Even with the upgraded ricksmotorsportelectrics stator, I'll only get 8-10 amps, and considering the pump will be at least 5-6, with injectors being up to another 3 and ECU being up to 1, not counting a possible solenoid to control the idle air control valve. Factoring in the headlight, this won't really be enough, so it looks like i'll need to get a stator/rotor off another bike to make this work. If i'm going to do it, i may as well get a considerably more powerful one, so I can power stuff like a better headlight, an ecu-driven tach, and possibly glove/jacket warmers. From what I've read, the CL350 alt is 55 watts, while a CBR600 F4i is around 300-310W. If you're gonna do it, may as well do it big, huh?
    #25
  6. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

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    Well, just pulled the trigger on a stator, rotor, and stator cover from a CBR 600 F4i (I'm somewhat trying to keep components in the honda family... no particular reason, plus I've worked on the F4i as part of FSAE). All bits are used, but together came out to $106 total. Now I just have to come up with the mounting, once they arrive.

    Alternator assembly and cover:
    [​IMG]

    And the first couple pics of the bike herself. Just finished dragging her up a flight of stairs to my apt (with the help of a few friends), and she's now residing on my balcony, awaiting work to begin!
    Her good side:
    [​IMG]
    Again:
    [​IMG]
    Low(ish) miles!:
    [​IMG]
    #26
  7. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

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    Just ordered a used fuel pump from another donor F4i. Its the cyl at the top of the picture below, and I'll probably just mount it externally with a fitting to replace the fuel valve. It also looks like it might include the fuel level sensor, which could be a nice addition once I figure out what its output is, especially since I won't have the "reserve" offered by the fuel valve anymore.
    [​IMG]

    Also got the fuel rail mounted to the throttle bodies, and preparation for the idle valve solenoid. This involved drilling and tapping a new hole to mount it to (since the old one broke off in whatever accident brought the set of throttle bodies to my possession), and drilling and tapping another pair of holes aligned with the plate that the solenoid will need to act against. Now I just need to find a solenoid and create the mounting bracket.

    [​IMG]

    Weather permitting, the bike will begin to come apart tomorrow to fit the throttle bodies, and take measurements for the alternator and associated hardware.
    #27
  8. Stagehand

    Stagehand Imperfectionist

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    This is pretty damn sweet :freaky
    #28
  9. BillsR100

    BillsR100 Happy Paleoflatus

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    +1 :lurk
    #29
  10. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

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    Well, pulled the seat, tank, air filters and carbs off of the bike today, and came to the conclusion that theres no way in hell I'm going to get the throttle bodies in the position I want them in without cutting them apart. The inlet ports in the head are just spaced too far apart, and there's not enough clearance between them and a frame member to get the throttle bodies installed in a way that'll actually flow fairly well.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Looks like I'll have to cut them apart after all, extend the fuel rail and throttle butterfly shaft, and possibly the idle actuator too. At this point I may just ignore the stock idle valve in the throttle bodies and instead just run a complete solenoid valve with a restrictor to simplify packaging.

    The bike as she sits now... mmm look at that rust... er... patina
    [​IMG]
    #30
  11. LoneStrom

    LoneStrom Been here awhile

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    Looking good!

    Any thoughts on the stator/cover yet?
    #31
  12. Minnesota Driver

    Minnesota Driver Head greenskeeper

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    I'm enjoying this...

    :lurk
    #32
  13. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

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    The stator/cover should be arriving today, so I can begin to get an idea of how to go about mounting that later this evening.

    As for the throttle bodies, I'll be cutting the one in half, and using the cable mounting and pivot arm bits from the CL350 carbs to actuate each throttle, instead of having to worry about extending the pivot arm. There's also the option of just cutting the fuel rail and welding nipples onto each side so that I can run some hose between, cutting this to length. I'll need to figure out some brackets to hold the now loose end of each individual rail down, but this shouldn't be too bad.
    #33
  14. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

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    Been a few days and I haven't had too much time to work on it. I got the throttle bodies cut in half, and figured out the mounting for the cable pulls, throttle position sensor, and importantly for the throttle bodies to the engine itself. Through some trimming of the stock CBR couplers and the original CL mounts, it looks like I can get a good seal and solid mounting, and still have the injectors pointed straight into the intake ports to hit the valves. The most difficult bit at this point for the throttle bodies will be chopping and modifying the fuel rail to route it around the frame.

    I haven't pulled the old stator/rotor yet, so I don't really have anything to report on that front as of now.
    #34
  15. SOS

    SOS Ignorance is a gift

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    Very Cool:lurk
    #35
  16. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

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    The throttle bodies are pretty much done, I just have to clean them up a little. The fuel rail is re-welded to go around the frame rail, and all of the cable pulls are taken care of now.

    I'll get some pictures later when I mock it up on the bike.
    #36
  17. drhach

    drhach We can't stop here, this is bat country!!

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    #37
  18. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

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    I helped to start the team at Cooper Union (small school in Manhattan; www.coopermotorsports.org), and was president for the car built for the 2007 competition. Quite the experience... we only had 4-5 people putting in lots of work on it, so I got to do intake design, engine management, suspension design and chassis design, as well as a lot of fabrication and the management/fundraising stuff

    Looks like I'll be getting started on the mechanical side of the restoration sooner than I anticipated. I just got a call from the landlord saying that they didnt approve of a motorcycle on my balcony, so it's time to reduce the motorcycle to something that no longer appears that way. Maybe a nice matching set of engine and frame porch chairs, a table made of stacked wheels etc as a way of "storing" the bike.

    Yay management :deal
    #38
  19. markjenn

    markjenn Long timer

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    VERY cool project. Tough problems. My only advice is to completely ignore the electrical problem for now and keep your eye on the FI ball. You can worry about practical considerations of having enough juice later. You may decide to just put a huge battery on the mother for now.

    I'm cheering for you.

    - Mark
    #39
  20. LoneStrom

    LoneStrom Been here awhile

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    +1

    I just picked up a stator/rotor combo from an f4i and it looks very manageable to get the rotor and stator mounted without having to do anything TOO crazy.

    Keep your eye on the prize and everything (apt management included) will be worth it when she fires up.
    #40