Project '71 ('73?) CL350... fuel injection and electronic spark control?

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by toplessFC3Sman, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Oddometer:
    68
    The FI hardware and wiring is actually the part i'm least concerned about. The biggest challenge hardware-wise at this point is going to be mounting the crank angle sensor and wheel, and getting a head temperature sensor for an air-cooled engine/figuring out its resistance curve. All of the wiring and modification of the engine controller is going to wait until december, since i'm going to buy the old CBR wiring harness and possibly an old Megasquirt engine controller off of my former FSAE team around thanksgiving.

    Tuning and providing enough power reliably will probably be the biggest challenges, and I can certainly get to work on the alternator side of it (as well as general bike restoration) right now, instead of waiting for a month to pick up those other components.

    Thank you everyone for the encouragement!:clap
    #41
  2. drhach

    drhach gorillamanufacturing.com

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,669
    Location:
    Waukegan
    Why do you think they put linoleum in those kitchens?:evil
    #42
  3. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Oddometer:
    68
    oh, the gf would loooooove that
    #43
  4. RAGBrian

    RAGBrian jonesing for a ride

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,034
    Location:
    Wildwood, MO
    :lurk Subscribed!

    This looks interesting. I am OK with messing with carbs, and I have enough in CB 350 engines and carbs to play with them over the winter (after the CX gets running).

    As for the stator output the manual says my CB360 is 0.13kW @ 5000 r.p.m. (130 W). I am looking to reduce current on the bike so I can support a heated vest for winter riding. I already switch off the low beam headlight during the day and that saves 35 watts (upgraded the headlight to a 6024 sealed beam-big improvement in the light output). May have to run a 2nd sealed lead acid battery as a loss system for the vest and rotate/charge the units.
    #44
  5. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Oddometer:
    68
    The shop manual for the CL350 says that the maximum charging at 10k RPM is about 4 amps, and max at 5k RPM is 1.5 to 2.5 amps... if there was about 130W to play with, then I may hold off on the alternator, but with only about 55W, the stock 12AH battery isn't going to sustain it for long.

    In other news, the throttle bodies are just about finished, with only a little grinding left to do to get them usable. They fit on the bike, and the fuel injectors are lined up pretty well with the valves. There's enough flexibility in the mounts that I'll probably need to make a bracket that will attach to the frame at the battery tray mounting bolts, but the throttle cable works well. I'll be able to route a rubber hose between the two fuel rails since the feed is on one side and the fuel pressure regulator/return is on the other. As for air filters, I should just be able to take a tube, mill a ring in it to seat an o-ring, and hold it in place with a couple bits of metal to the stock airbox mounting bolts on the throttle bodies, and then mount an appropriately sized filter over the end of that.

    Now... for the pictures!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    #45
  6. Mr. Vintage

    Mr. Vintage Family Dude

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2007
    Oddometer:
    868
    Location:
    The Palouse
    Cool! Thanks for the update. So is that the idle control under the fuel rail, on the outboard ends?
    #46
  7. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Oddometer:
    68
    yea, those are the idle valves out there. I may just plug them up, since there isnt an easy way to actuate them independently, and it'll be much easier to run a single solenoid valve that splits air to each side, that way all the plumbing is just with vacuum lines, and the location of the solenoid valve isn't critical (although the closer to the TB's the better)
    #47
  8. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Oddometer:
    68
    Been a while since I've done anything with the bike; i've been busy on re-doing a wiring harness for my project car, visiting for thanksgiving etc.

    Anyhow, its time to tear into the stator/rotor, compare sizes and begin machining.

    Pictures coming tonight
    #48
  9. 1973cl350k5kid

    1973cl350k5kid n00b

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2009
    Oddometer:
    8
    Cool to see another 73 cl like mine!! I would NEVER go this far though! I give you props! I would have just swaped the entire motor instead! I already have a big project like this anyway, putting a gsx-r motor in a custom buggy im building haha.
    #49
  10. boredom

    boredom Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Oddometer:
    141
    Location:
    Adirondak
    Your project car a second gen RX-7? :lol3
    #50
  11. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Oddometer:
    68
    Yep, an '88 convertible that I've turbo-swapped and megasquirted/tuned. Very fun car, and it's taught me a lot.

    Anyway, as for the CL, I got the engine removed from the frame to begin cleaning the frame up, but didn't get very far on removing the stator since all the damn philips head screws were seized and stripping out. Time for the dremel (and replacing with allen keys or torx). :clap
    #51
  12. LoneStrom

    LoneStrom Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    Oddometer:
    339
    Location:
    ATL <--> BWI
    Left handed drill bits are your friend....
    #52
  13. boredom

    boredom Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Oddometer:
    141
    Location:
    Adirondak
    use an impact driver for the screws. much less messy and a lot easier.

    as for you car, I know, because I lurk on RX-7 Club because of Aaron Cake...
    #53
  14. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Oddometer:
    68
    I wish I had access to an impact driver, but this is a low-budget project at the moment. I've had a bit of success by just cutting a slot into the head of the screws and using a flathead screwdriver.

    Aaron's a pretty knowledgeable guy; do you know him personally?
    #54
  15. boredom

    boredom Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Oddometer:
    141
    Location:
    Adirondak
    #55
  16. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Oddometer:
    68
    I picked up one of those about 3 weeks ago, and its come in very handy. great for those pesky philips-head screws holding the stator cover on.

    Anyhow, time for a much-delayed update... funds have been running low so things have been going slowly. It has allowed me to get a bunch of planning done though. I left off on the alternator, so lets pick up there...

    [​IMG]

    The rotor from the CBR F4i has the magnets along the outside, pointing inward, as opposed to the CB/CL350, which has the magnets in the center. To get this much bigger rotor to fit, I needed to machine off the mounting ears on the inside of the stator cover. Since I no longer had any way of attaching the cover or mount for the stator, i needed to drill and tap some new holes for that in what was left of the stator cover. I ended up choosing to do them on the old mounting surface in a circular pattern, using 12 evenly spaced 6-32 bolts, since half of these would not only nicely match up with the 6 previous (and thicker) mounting flanges, but i'd need more than 6 because they are not only significantly smaller than the old screws, but they'll need to react more torque from the higher output stator. You can see all the modifications to the stator cover in the picture below.

    [​IMG]

    Now, on both bikes, the one-way clutch is right underneath the rotor. The CBR's is a bit bigger though. I first tried to machine out the flange/outer bearing surface from the CBR's to be able to press the CL's fully inside of it, but it was very hardened steel, so I had to turn down the CL's outer diameter (and lose the pressed-on retaining cover for all the pins/rollers etc) so that it would press inside. The finished product is seen in the next picture, although I still need to drill/tap the CL's existing holes so I can bolt on a retaining flange on the bottom side. You need to make sure that you keep the correct side of the CL's one-way clutch down so that it'll work in the correct direction (allowing the starter to spin the engine, not the other way around).

    [​IMG]

    Moving on to the engine management side of things, I got started on the signaling for engine position. I'm replacing the ignition points with a toothed wheel and variable reluctance (VR) sensor, both from a spare crank angle sensor off of my 2nd generation RX-7. I plan on using just the one 24-tooth wheel, except grinding off one of the teeth (making it a 24-1 wheel), so that the gap will represent to the megasquirt the beginning of a new cycle. This way i'll only need one VR sensor and wheel, as opposed to the two that the CAS uses in the RX-7. The VR sensor will mount up inside the old points housing to trigger off of each of the teeth.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    In addition, i've ordered and recieved two coil-driver kits for the megasquirt, a used CBR wiring harness with the injector, TPS, alternator and voltage regulator/rectifier plugs, as well as some relays, and I got a new set of tires from my family for christmas!:clap

    Still to do for this spring:
    Finish trigger wheel machining and mounting
    Order material for stator mounting; complete stator mount machining
    Machine tapered spacer w/keyway for rotor mounting
    Order cyl head temp sensor/connector from VW bus/porsche 914 ($20)
    Order narrowband O2 sensor and exhaust bung; weld onto exhaust
    Order megasquirt MS1/V3 kit and assemble/make wiring harness
    Order in-line fuel pump (since the CBR pump is in-tank, and would require a lot of unnecessary fabrication to make work) and fuel filter
    Order new chain and sprockets, clutch cable, handlebars, possibly control switches.
    Strip frame, swing arm etc and re-paint, inspect brakes, bearings, shocks/springs etc.
    Clean out old tank, re-seal

    Longer-term:
    Speedo/tach from a newer bike, signaled from the MS
    HID projector headlight, LED turns and tail
    Disk-brake front end swap
    #56
  17. Mr. Vintage

    Mr. Vintage Family Dude

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2007
    Oddometer:
    868
    Location:
    The Palouse
    Sweet, thanks for the update. :clap Looks like you have a head start on the missing tooth... :evil
    #57
  18. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Oddometer:
    68
    yea, i chipped that when seeing if I could just pry the wheels off of the shaft... didnt quite go according to plan.
    #58
  19. roasterx

    roasterx Leatherman Jedi

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    57
    Location:
    Somewhere Over the Rainbow
    Subscribed! Keep up the good work, this is exciting stuff, mostly above my knowledge.
    #59
  20. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Oddometer:
    68
    Gotten a little bit done, but the past week's been busy with starting a new job, so work on the bike has slowed down a little bit. Anyhow, I finished machining the tapered spacer that fits over the end of the crank shaft and properly positions the new rotor, plus fits into its taper. All these tapers seemed to be approx 5* or 5 1/2* from straight; 5* measured on the lathe wasn't quite perfect, but since I made the spacer from aluminum, it'll deform enough once its torqued down that the difference in angle won't matter. Cutting the grooves for the keys into the crank shaft and rotor was a bit of a pain, using a hack-saw for the inner one so that I could feed the blade through the center of the spacer, and a dremel for the outer one since there were no problems with clearance for the tool. I forgot to take a picture of the finished product before bolting everything onto the engine... oops!

    [​IMG]

    I also got a piece of aluminum piping online that is almost the perfect size for making the spacer for the end cap. I still need to machine it to trim down the outside bore the inside slightly, drill the 12 holes to bolt it down, and cut it to the right length, but even as a rough cut, it fits very well.

    [​IMG]

    This next pic shows that the engine, after all is complete, will only be approximately 1 - 1 1/2" wider than stock, for a 6-7X increase in alternator output!

    [​IMG]

    I also finished the machining for the cam timing wheel and sensor within the housing that used to hold the points off the end of the cam shaft. Its pretty much fully assembled now too.

    [​IMG]

    I've also been working on cleaning up bits of the engine as I go along, just to make it a little more presentable (and its a lot easier to sand/brush bits when sitting around talking than to use power tools). Now that I'm starting a new job, hopefully I'll have the $ soon to buy the megasquirt engine controller and other bits for the project/mini restoration! :freaky
    #60