Project '71 ('73?) CL350... fuel injection and electronic spark control?

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by toplessFC3Sman, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. gravityisnotmyfriend

    gravityisnotmyfriend Long timer

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    Dude.... did you read the other thread?


    This post here:

    And this post over at hondatwins:


    Was made at exactly the same time.

    That is some coincidence!




















    Sorry about the hijack. I'll go no further with this.

    Yes, it was a joke. I've been following his build over there since it started, and just stumbled on it over there.
    Back to you regularly scheduled programming.
  2. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

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    Hmm, another person megasquirting one of these bikes, and who's also into 2nd gen RX-7's! We HAVE to meet!

    I tend to get into a lot of trouble with the fiance because sarcasm is so easily lost in typed messages :D
  3. Kt-88

    Kt-88 I like everything.

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    Well.. I thought it was funny.
  4. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

    Joined:
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    Anyhow, back to our regularly scheduled programming!

    Back down in the basement yesterday, and some progress was made! There was a bunch of re-thinking and re-routing cables, wiring harnesses, and planning for the fuel line and other yet-to-be-mounted components, but at the end of the day things were looking better. No pics of messing with the harness or cables, but thats not the interesting stuff to look at anyway.

    [​IMG]
    Here's the fuel pump, resting in its new home atop the transmission. It's actually attached to the top rear bolt holding the engine to the frame with some metal straps, with the fuel filter strapped on top of it. Due to the angle that the "custom-welded" fittings ended up pointing off the fuel pump once tightened down, this one had to exit backwards, forcing the fuel line from the filter to come out and then curve around back before coming forward to the fuel pump inlet.

    [​IMG]
    The fuel pump again from the other side, right under the throttle position sensor on the right-side throttle body. The tube running up here is from the fuel pump outlet heading up to the fuel pressure regulator block. The inlet to the filter from the tank can also be seen a little further back - I haven't run that line yet.

    [​IMG]
    Here's the fuel pressure regulator block; the line thats sticking out unfinished is the other end of the feed line from the fuel pump. I still need to measure that one to the right length, maybe add a slight bend where it enters its fitting on the block, and swage the collet onto it. Coming out of the block to the right is a line to the T-fitting that feeds the fuel rails on the throttle bodies. The low-pressure relief is the hose barb thats pointing to the left of the picture (forward on the bike) - that will need a tube run forward from it, over the engine and then across the bike in front of the frame-to-engine-head mount, up to the return fitting on the tank. This positioning of the FPR block seemed to make all the connections the simplest, with the only really complicated line being the one coming from the fuel pump (out upwards from the pump, 90 deg towards the front of the bike, 90 deg towards the center of the bike, 90 deg upwards between the throttle bodies, 90 deg out towards the right side of the bike, then 180 deg back to get the proper angle entering the FPR block). It also kept the lines from the injectors running continuously upwards with no local high spots, hopefully helping to avoid trapping air in there. I would have liked to put it right between the intake valve lash adjustment covers with the return hose pointing straight through the frame-to-engine-head mount, but that left a very shallow angle for the air bubble return, and interfered with where the throttle cables are running.

    [​IMG]
    And overall, from the left side of the bike. The way the throttle is run puts the "split" right in the void where the coils used to live under the fuel tank, with each side coming out and then crossing back over between the throttle bodies so that it can pull on the throttle without major kinks. I'm still not settled on this routing, and may re-do it next time, but we'll see. I need to let my hands heal a little though - working with that tubing and the "Hazard-Fraught" tools I had from re-doing fuel & brake lines on my GF's car really beat them up & tired them out.
  5. Kt-88

    Kt-88 I like everything.

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    I can't wait to see this run.
  6. Kt-88

    Kt-88 I like everything.

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    Update?
  7. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

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    Oddly enough, I just logged on here for the first time in months. Its been a very busy summer with all 3 cars requiring some large maintenance. Anyway, a new management company took over the apt complex recently, and since the last post they've made some changes. Most significant is that they've rewired the storage area, hooking all the lights to motion sensors and removing all the outlets. So now, to do any work on the bike, I need to get up every few minutes and jump around to keep from being left in the dark, plus I can't plug in any tools or my own lights. They haven't said anything about the motorcycle itself being there though, so at least there's that.

    Anyway, its definitely getting a bit cold to work on the cars now, so attention will be shifting back to the bike. Now, to remember where I left off...
  8. Stagehand

    Stagehand Imperfectionist

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    Welcome back. Maybe you could plug in an oscillating fan :D
  9. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

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    Well, I searched around & found a couple outlets a few rooms over in the laundry room, so a couple extension cords & some harbor freight work-lights later, and we're back in business!
    [​IMG]

    Unfortunately, the setup time & my work and home-life schedule means that I only really get about 4 hours a week to work on the bike, so things are progressing slowly. There have been small things done in the past month or so, such as re-sealing the fuel tank after all the welding, then finding that I've accidentally sealed up the nipple that allows fuel to drain from one side of the tank & pass to the other, even though I made sure to blow air through to keep it open. D'oh! Time for some cutting & soldering
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Then, trying to complete some of the fuel pump wiring, I slipped & broke the ground electrical stud off of the fuel pump. Well, crap! When looking for a new one, I did stumble across a company that makes fuel injection kits for small single-cyl engines, Ninja 250's etc: www.ecotrons.com. They happen to carry small fuel pumps capable of the pressures for fuel injection, but with much, much more appropriate flow rates. The old pump that I broke was about 130 liters/hr, I calculated that I should need about 12 liters/hr flow rate for max power, and they have a pump that will provide 25 liters/hr! This means I won't be needlessly circulating 5 to 20 times the fuel that the engine needs, drawing about 5X more power than this tiny pump. The icing on the cake is that the tiny pump costs half as much too!
    [​IMG]

    So the past couple months have been one-step-forward, one-step-backwards, but I'm hoping to make some headway soon!
  10. Mr. Vintage

    Mr. Vintage Family Dude

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    While riding my SL home from work yesterday I thought of your project and was wondering what was up - thanks for the update.
  11. Kt-88

    Kt-88 I like everything.

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    That kit is pretty dang neat, actually. Commence to googlin'.
  12. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

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    Yea, the kit is pretty neat, but the biggest problem with using the Ecotrons system as-is with most older bikes is that the stock charging systems are woefully inadequate for any additional load, and are marginal with just the stock lighting. The fuel pump alone will draw about 20W, and I'd count on another 10W for the ECU, 10-15 for the injector, and 10-15 for the spark coil, putting you at the ragged edge of what the stock system could do in the best-case scenario. That's also not including any lighting, so you'd almost always be running off the battery.

    Anyhow, I just got the new pump yesterday, and it is much smaller than the old one too.
    [​IMG]

    I need to order a few more fittings to make it work, and bend a few more lines, but it'll package well. I should be able to mount it using one of the clutch-side cover bolts so that it's out of the way of the kick-starter, my legs etc, I can re-use one of the hard lines feeding the pressure regulator, and it provides a nice straight run for the line from the tank. Fuel will come in from tank & shut-off valve, down through the fuel filter, around a 180deg bend and into the pump inlet, and then up out into a modified version of the existing line that runs to the fuel pressure regulator.
    [​IMG]

    Also, I finally ordered something I've been meaning to do for a very long time now - a huge assortment of new bolts & hardware to replace a lot of the philips-head ones on the bike now. Every time I try to unscrew a few of them, one of them invariably gets messed up & needs to be extracted, so now I can replace them all with allen head bolts, and have plenty left over for other projects too.
  13. 16VGTIDave

    16VGTIDave blame Reaver...

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    That would be because those screws are NOT Phillips! They are a similar design based on Japanese Industrial Standards or JIS. Take a look at this site for details. You will note that the head of each and every screw has a dot on it to mark them as JIS. While a Phillips bit may be close to fitting, it isn't good enough to apply enough torque to remove a stubborn screw without stripping it, as you have found out.

    Using the correct bits will make all the difference, though replacing all the offending fasteners may be less expensive and ultimately more practical.
  14. toplessFC3Sman

    toplessFC3Sman Adventurer

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    Seriously? There's a JIS-standard for cross-head bolts? That's about as silly as there being separate NPT vs BSPT vs Whitworth threads. It does explain a lot though... I've destroyed enough of those bolts trying to remove them that getting the proper bit right now would be pointless, so they shall all go!
  15. 16VGTIDave

    16VGTIDave blame Reaver...

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    Yup! The Japanese created their own variant of a cruciform (NOT a cross!) head screw to avoid the limitations of the Phillips design, and having to pay royalties and licensing fees for EVERY single fastener and tool they made.

    Wikipedia has more info on the various types of cruciform screws.

    Took me long time, and many stripped screws, to learn I was using the wrong type of screwdriver. Some drywall bits fit better into JIS screws. An impact driver may help release stubborn screws by preventing the bit from "camming out".
  16. Kt-88

    Kt-88 I like everything.

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    Updates?