Question?

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by jub jub, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. jub jub

    jub jub frumiousbandersnatch

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    Anybody here that can relate an old school open class two stroke to a modern day 450? I talked with a Honda rep today that said a modern day 450 would wax ass on an old school two stroke 450.

    What saith thee MoFos?
    #1
  2. Pro_Marinero

    Pro_Marinero Carbon Sasquatch

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    Why did 450f's race in the same class as 250 2ts?

    I've ridden both. Most people today have no idea what a piped and ported open-class 2t is capable of. There is nothing like it when the pipe hits and you make the jump to hyperspace... :eek
    #2
  3. Tellydoug

    Tellydoug Troubador of joy

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    channeling my inner manatee

    He was probably smoking crack and has never been on an old 2t with lots of power, stiff handling, and minimal braking.
    #3
  4. jub jub

    jub jub frumiousbandersnatch

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    Thank you guys. That is what I thought. New school has to double the displacement to make the grade.

    I had a YZ465 that was nasty fast. I'd love to put it up against a modern day, 5 valve four stroke.
    #4
  5. Hawk

    Hawk Pretentious Fukwit!!

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    Thanks for reminding me that Supercross is on tonight :thumb
    #5
  6. Boondoggle

    Boondoggle Gear Grinder

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    He was probably comparing 2013 4t shocks to 1985 2t shocks. If you put those things in the same chassis... my money is on the two-strokes

    Not that I ever did (or even could have) wrung one of those things out

    But that is a time machine worth travelling through
    #6
  7. Reverend12

    Reverend12 Well there it is..

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    He obviously never rode a Yamaha YZ 465....
    #7
  8. Bender

    Bender I can pass this guy..

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    That 465 wouldn't hold a candle to a decently tuned KX500 or a CR500.
    #8
  9. jub jub

    jub jub frumiousbandersnatch

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    Thanks for reminding me. Just checked the menu and it looks like racing from Angel Stadium at 10:30 on speed. Please don,t let it be the lights!
    #9
  10. WARRIORPRINCEJJ

    WARRIORPRINCEJJ Not in the clique...

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    I had a CR500...

    ...for about two weeks.


    I swear that fucker was tryin' to kill me.


    .
    #10
  11. snofrog

    snofrog Been here awhile

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    #11
  12. hillbillypolack

    hillbillypolack Grumpy Old Goat

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    That's the beast I was going to reference. The CR500s were the two wheeled wicked witch of the dirt. It'd love you until it got on the pipe then it'd tear your arms off and you could barely keep your feet on the pegs.

    I had a KTM 520 that tried to tear my arms out too, but the ferocity of the CR still scares the piss out of me.
    #12
  13. Donkey Hotey

    Donkey Hotey De Jo Momma

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    The older you get, the faster you were. :deal

    I had a YZ465 as well. Yeah, it was fast. No, it wasn't THAT fast. I have a well respected friend who regularly raced intermediate class in west coast Grand Prixs before moving away a couple of years ago. He reassured me that a modern 450 four stroke would kick a CR500s ass.

    Edit: hell, here he is actually addressing this very issue--Nate Evans, partway down the page:
    http://www.dirtrider.com/tests/141_0701_size_matters/

    A YZ465 would easily get beaten. Mine was on the Storz dyno just before I bought it and it put out a peak of just a bit over 40 horsepower.

    [​IMG]

    #13
  14. perterra

    perterra -. --- .--. .

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    What was a CR500, 55-60 horsepower? The modern 4s might be a little quicker, wax ass, I dont know about. Old CR motor in a modern frame, all bets are off.
    #14
  15. Bill-66

    Bill-66 Hencho in Kansas

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    One of the mag's just did a story on this..A KTM 450, 350 and a 250 Smoker..everyone felt faster on the oil burner..everyone was faster on the 450..a four stroke just makes traction easily where the 2 stroke requires something of the rider..namely clutch control..
    #15
  16. jub jub

    jub jub frumiousbandersnatch

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    That's fucking depressing. I would have bet big money on a two stroke anyday . I!m bummed! P
    #16
  17. Crocodile Tears

    Crocodile Tears Anti-Semantic

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    I have to imagine Joe Schmoe will be quicker on a 4t but a rider worth his salt on a CR/KX500 should come out on top. Add modern suspension/frame and the gap widens.

    :dunno
    #17
  18. vettex2

    vettex2 X-Racer

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    both have around 60HP nowadays.......the 4 strokes caught up
    #18
  19. 68deluxe

    68deluxe Long timer

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    Apples and oranges. The MX tracks of old were rougher and the moto's were 45 minutes plus 2 laps, today they are cleaner and 30 minute moto's. Back in the 70's a 450 2 stroke used the same chassis as a 250 and typically weighed 220 lbs. Newer bikes weigh 25 lbs more and have more weight up high due to the water cooling. If I was to spend $10K on a race bike I would choose a 501 Maico (and race vintage) over a 450 KTM (for old timers) any day of the week.
    #19
  20. jub jub

    jub jub frumiousbandersnatch

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    I'm with you. Two stroke HP in a modern chassis = win,win! I just can't see how a four banger can out perform a two smoke of yester_year!


    But then again, I guess the only way of knowing for sure is to ride one.
    #20