R1200GS Fuel Pump Failure

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by Dutchman, Oct 25, 2004.

  1. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    All warranty parts are kept, usually to return to the factory for testing.:deal

    As for the rest, the guy needs a chill pill. It is amazing how much more some on the internet DO know than some of the dealers, though, of course, not everything you read on the internet is true!

    Jim :brow
    #41
  2. azgsa

    azgsa Dude

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    Well, I'll ask and se what they say. Still waiting on a call back from this morning to see if they've even got the replacement controller in yet...

    I don't tell 'em anything about the Internet. When I took it in last week for the appt I said "a few guys I know with GS's have had this same symptom and it turned out to be the fuel pump controller". Next day "We determined it was the fuel pump controller after the pump didn't return an error code".

    So I'm guessing the reason this isn't a recall is there isn't a replacement part that seems to fix the root issue, from what I am reading on this and the UKGSER.com forum. There are some instances of multiple replacements. The failure mechanism seems to be inconsistent. It's been happening since model release in 2004, so obviously BMW doesn't have a handle on the issue. At this point (and long before) BMW knew this was an issue with the present R12GS fuel system design. Knowledge that the controller can (and does) fail causing the bike to stop rather suddenly seems like a liability issue. I know it was scary for me on the freeway 2 Saturdays ago in moderate traffic with construction and no shoulder to pull off on when my GSA started cutting out. I was very lucky at that point it didn't stop completely or I would have been at a dead stop in a 'live' lane on the freeway. It slowed to about 20mph and then started back up, a few times.
    #42
  3. DaneelOlivaw

    DaneelOlivaw Irv Seaver BMW; Parts Mgr

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    We've done 1078 BMW warranty repair orders this year, most of which contained at least some parts, rather than labor alone;.

    A total of only about five parts have been requested for return by BMW this year; most of them were a certain police siren amplifier. This will be the case at most dealers; vast majority of failed warranty parts go to trash at the dealer.

    Many auto and bike dealers tell customers that they cannot have their failed parts to take home because 'the manufacturer asks for them back'. These men are weak.

    We instead tell the hard truth: Failed warranty parts only go back to BMW in rare circumstance. All failed warranty parts however are the exclusive property of BMWNA. BMW's dealer agreement forbids dealers from ever releasing failed warranty parts to vehicle owners. Rather, dealers are required, under a strictly controlled BMW regimen, to systematically dispose of these parts.
    #43
  4. Poolside

    Poolside Syndicated

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    <BR>
    Define the strict traceability pursuant to the term "dispose". The truth now :wink:

    <BR>
    #44
  5. RichK

    RichK Long timer

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    Yes, but I read it on the internet so it must be a lie. :rofl

    Rich
    #45
  6. DaneelOlivaw

    DaneelOlivaw Irv Seaver BMW; Parts Mgr

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    Rather than the service manager, it is the dealership parts manager who typically takes responsibility for the management of the retention, storage, filing, and systematic periodic scrapping of failed/take-off warranty parts. Each manufacturer's WPPM (Warranty Policy and Procedures Manual) spells out exact requirements that tend to follow a rather narrow common industry standard.

    All failed/take-off warranty parts must be tagged with pertinent repair order information like RO number, part number, and date. Items are then to be stored in a "ten-bin" shelf system, where each of the possible ten last-digits of the RO have a shelf assigned.

    Items are to be retained until one of three things happen:

    1) The manufacturer (rarely to very rarely) requests the dealer to ship the failed/take-off item from a specific RO back to them, which typically happens immediately after the warranty claim is submitted by the dealer to the manufacturer. Failure to comply causes claim to be rejected.
    2) The dealer has been paid by the manufacturer for the warranty claim, and on-site scrapping command has been given for the part. Some manufacturers specify scrapping after a specific number of days has elapsed since the paid-date of the claim; others periodically issue a list of specific paid claims whose parts must be scrapped on a specific day. Manufacturer forbids dealer from scrapping any item early, and from retaining any item after its scrap day. Periodic visits to the dealer by authorized factory service field reps include monitoring the dealer's compliance with warranty parts retention requirements, including spot-checking of items shelved in the ten-bin retention area, with factory warranty scrap report in hand. Skilled parts managers find manufacturer requirements in this sector of the dealer's operation to be rather easy to meet; tag the part and scrap it at the right time, and act immediately on all (occasional) send-back requests.
    3) The dealer warranty claim is rejected by the manufacturer. In this case, usually resulting from dealer claim processing procedural error, part becomes once again the property of the dealer. Rejected claims are great in number at most poorly-managed dealerships.

    Do top-skilled career parts managers establish so high a degree of compliance in this area that their factory reps come to know this well enough to reduce periodic parts-retention-area inspections to the occasional glance? Many do. I do. But I could also weather a rigorous inspection by the same guy any day, and he knows it. One thing I will never do is give a failed/take-off warranty part to a customer. Never. Ever.
    #46
  7. Poolside

    Poolside Syndicated

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    <BR>Whoa! That's quite a little system they got there, Daneel. Seems like the whole purpose of the procedure is to make money by not paying claims when the dealer doesn't follow the procedure.

    The manufacturer spends more attention on developing and policing that system than they do a lot of other things. I'm glad though, because when ciirap fails, it's nice to know the great care in which it will be thrown away on an exact day. Not any sooner, and certainly not any later.

    <BR>
    #47
  8. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    Excellent information, it is nice when a dealer levels with us, and what you say makes perfect sense from a corporate standpoint, despite some people's insistance that BMW is some kind of evil entity!:deal

    Jim :brow
    #48
  9. DaneelOlivaw

    DaneelOlivaw Irv Seaver BMW; Parts Mgr

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    quote=Poolside:

    'A' Whoa! That's quite a little system they got there, Daneel. Seems like the whole purpose of the procedure is to make money by not paying claims when the dealer doesn't follow the procedure.

    These warranty procedures which, as I've said, are common to all vehicle manufacturers, are put in place and usually serve well to reduce manufacturer warranty loss caused by careless work or fraudulent practices at dysfunctional dealers. Making money and stopping loss are not exactly the same thing.



    'B' The manufacturer spends more attention on developing and policing that system than they do a lot of other things.

    You asked for and received a truthful expanded expert explanation of certain aspects of the control system under which dealers operate when your vehicle warranty comes into play. Forum members reading your comment 'B' will now expect you to give your detailed explanation of how manufacturers allot their time and resources. Remember that without credible supporting information, most assertions such as yours must be entirely dismissed by even the mildly skeptical reader.


    'C' I'm glad though, because when ciirap fails, it's nice to know the great care in which it will be thrown away on an exact day. Not any sooner, and certainly not any later.

    Is "ciirap" another trendy fake word in the vast lexicon of the 21St-Century idiot?
    #49
  10. DaneelOlivaw

    DaneelOlivaw Irv Seaver BMW; Parts Mgr

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    Thank you, Mr Bade.
    #50
  11. Poolside

    Poolside Syndicated

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    <BR>
    First it was "usually...procedural errors and poor management", which sounds to me like a convenient way for BMW to save money on claims.

    Which changed to, "usually...fraudulent practices at dysfunctional dealers" that the mfg. must protect themselves from. Poor, poor BMW.

    I made no comments about you Daneel genteel. Why you gotta be like that? I can believe you work for a BMW store.

    You're a machine. Owned and operated.

    Pet your lap dog.

    <BR>
    #51
  12. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    :rolleyes Typical.

    Jim :brow
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  13. Poolside

    Poolside Syndicated

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    <BR>Good boy! Have a biscuit. These business concerns and international manufacturers are helpless and threatened from observation and points of view without your sharp fangs to protect them. Heh heh.

    <BR>
    #53
  14. RichK

    RichK Long timer

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    Daneel,

    Thanks for the honest explanation. It's appreciated that someone gives the real skinny, and it makes sense that BMW would have the right to get parts back as dealers could be doing all kinds of false work and charging BMW accordingly.


    I now know why I can't get my parts back unless I make a deal to get them out of the trash.

    Rich
    #54
  15. RichK

    RichK Long timer

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    Well got my bike back. Imagine that, it was indeed the fuel pump controller.

    Now, however, it's gathering fuel up in that location. :huh Seems to do it slowly like maybe less than 1/2 oz over 100 miles (or a couple days)

    Take it back or fix it myself? Sheesh.


    Rich
    #55
  16. azgsa

    azgsa Dude

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    Guess it depends on the convenience.

    Got mine back too Wednesday before last and they had replaced the fuel pump controller. The cutting out problem solved, but then the fuel gauge read full all the time. Back to the dealer last Sat and stayed all day so they could replace the fuel gauge sending strip and do an update on the computer. Don't mind hanging out at Scottsdale BMW too much (had already planned the day off), nice plasma video setup to watch movies on (World's Fastest Indian, etc.) and complementary refreshments. Also took a K1200GT for an hour test ride. Love that cruise control.
    #56
  17. Burnszilla

    Burnszilla BurnsMoto.com

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    #57
  18. Burnszilla

    Burnszilla BurnsMoto.com

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    I found a source for the blue connectors to the fuel pump.
    I can make two different types of the 'fuel controller by-pass harness'... One with the bmw power socket and one with Posi-taps.

    How many of you guys are interested in buying them? $20, free shipping to US. (before I purchase the parts)
    #58
  19. motoreiter

    motoreiter Long timer

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    I'd be interested in one with the power socket.
    #59
  20. mrmaico

    mrmaico Long timer

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    +1 I'd take one too.
    #60