R80g/s Cylinder stud striptease... Well... here we go.

Discussion in 'Airheads' started by elmontanero, May 21, 2013.

  1. elmontanero

    elmontanero Practicing...

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,047
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    STATUS:Finished up assembly, Started and ridden round. Second Valve adjustment done, carbs tuned and 20 miles ridden since rebuild. Happy so far. I think I finally made sense of the Harmonizer for an Airhead. Rode sweet!

    Skip to post two for Striptease explanation... here's the wind up:
    I've been pretty quiet on here for a while and while some folks would reckon that all was well in g/s land you'd be dead wrong. Had a little trouble here, little mess there with the bike back in September/October. Tuning and such - all squared away. Then, as indicated on the title - doing a valve adjustment and re-torque time for the head. Left cylinder top exhaust just wasn't having it. Kept spinning - no tightening - just turning.

    History: heads have been off the bike previously for Pushrod seals, bike has in the neighborhood of 60k miles. De carboned the heads the last time till they looked like such:
    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]
    After that all went together - ran like a Swiss Watch and even sounded like one too. Quiet and smooth. Ah Airhead nirvana....:norton
    Slight discoloration near the cylinder base, prehaps blow by from the joint... well that's odd. Forget it and move on, bike runs fine. Then the niggly things like pawl spring, carbs, coil, all that crap eventually needs love- back to well enough. Now this...
    So I will admit that I put it aside and rode the Oilheads (gasp) but won't admit how long I didn't work on it. Went down tonight to finally deal with it... all the crap that has to be disconnected or removed done. Valve cover off, take off all the nuts and remove rockers.. yep, threads and then some of the stud showing only on that one ... "so off with the head", and cylinder comes off too. Looking like this now: Left side:
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    #1
  2. elmontanero

    elmontanero Practicing...

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,047
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    And here's the STRIPtease part: that stud looks like such: [​IMG]
    Not wiggly, not threading out nor taking the torque.

    So I've read all the threads on Helicoil and timesert and utI'm gonna pass on getting into that argument. I will be going with a jig because I'm scared and sad....

    What's the best way to get the stud out.. put back the parts and just keep turning till all comes free?

    Lock two nuts together andspin it out?

    Take the bike to the nearest qualified mechanic since I probably ham fisted it with a cheap torque wrench?

    And to you folks who are holding your heads in shame.. this is my garage now.. [​IMG]
    Not the easiest location about a 40 yard walk to it.
    #2
  3. elmontanero

    elmontanero Practicing...

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,047
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Some panic as to having heads rebuilt, new rings.. all the usual worry beads stuff. :shog:shog:shog Should the cylinder bases and heads be machined flat?
    Right side looks like this showing similar blowby do you think I gotta get in to that one too?
    [​IMG]
    Summers here in a month and I'd rather not spend a bundle on bike unless needed... vacation is sacred to a teacher.
    #3
  4. hardwaregrrl

    hardwaregrrl ignore list

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Oddometer:
    8,170
    Location:
    Atlanta
    ....from Jeff here. Used a similar one recently and it was a breeze. Remove the stud by locking 2 nuts together.

    Here is my account
    #4
  5. elmontanero

    elmontanero Practicing...

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,047
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Thanks, off to some reading.

    Edit.. do you recommend the HPD or the Northwoods then? seem like quite different inserts.. ut oh.. might be falling into that trap...
    #5
  6. hardwaregrrl

    hardwaregrrl ignore list

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Oddometer:
    8,170
    Location:
    Atlanta
    I like the HPD inserts much better.
    #6
  7. Dreossi

    Dreossi Adventurer

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2013
    Oddometer:
    49
    Location:
    London, Ontario, Canada
    Jig is a good idea... Easily made with some decent ply wood. Remember if its an upper stud there is an oil galley that supplies the rocker with oil. You must not plug it. I just finished the same repair on my gs, used a keen sert. I removed one of the pins, enlarged the grove on the outside of the sert, and lined that up with the oil galley. Only locktite behond the oil galley to ensure no plugging.

    Other things that worked for me, grease in drill bit grooves to trap shavings. Only drill a wee bit, clean bit, re grease, drill again. Same with tap. Clean everything with brake cleaner, let dry, check oil galley is not plugged. check the inside of you newly tapped case for filinga with your fonger, there will be some bits there. I used high heat locktite, again, behind oil hole in crank case. I let mine cure for a coulple of days before assembly. Use a decent torque wrench, 25 lb max, etc.

    I started bike up and ran it with rocker cover off it for a spell... Just to make sure oil galley not plugged. This also ensures any aluminum bits get flushed out of your engine...change oil and filter after a short idle.

    With any luck you are away, good luck!
    #7
  8. elmontanero

    elmontanero Practicing...

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,047
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    So... does anyone out there rent out their HPD jig?
    #8
  9. R-dubb

    R-dubb Dubbious Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Oddometer:
    5,309
    Location:
    San Francisco
    That exhaust valve appears to be pretty seriously recessed. Have you considered having the heads done?
    #9
  10. elmontanero

    elmontanero Practicing...

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,047
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I have... thanks for the feedback. Money's not flowing, but if it has to be done.
    #10
  11. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Oddometer:
    9,116
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay area
    When repairing the top threads, the work really needs to be vacuumed afterwards with a strong vacuum. Don't rely on just grease to catch all the metal shavings. Behind the stud holes is the oil galley that the installed stud itself blocks making the small hole above the stud flow oil. Don't leave a bunch of crap there. It will migrate all through your engine and ruin it. I have seen this happen a number of times. The left overs F up the oil pump and the rest is down hill from there. Good luck!
    #11
  12. elmontanero

    elmontanero Practicing...

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,047
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Thanks SS... gonna be a while to get in there. With needing heads rebuild, I'll be having a bit of time. I'm going to pick up the gaskets etc from a shop I'm loyal to.

    So determining when to change rings....?
    #12
  13. elmontanero

    elmontanero Practicing...

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,047
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #13
  14. Solo Lobo

    Solo Lobo airhead or nothing

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Oddometer:
    9,694
    Location:
    Shoreline, WA
    The heads on my G/S that had a supposed 21K miles had severely worn valve guides...

    I think the valve kit from Motobins including 4 valves, springs, retainers and high-temp guides as about $200, and the head work about that again.

    Don't know about fixing the recession as mine were fine
    #14
  15. elmontanero

    elmontanero Practicing...

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,047
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    G,
    BMW or Intervalves? I know there's a debate, Just wondering what you went with.
    #15
  16. One Less Harley

    One Less Harley OH.THAT'S GONNA HURT

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,455
    Location:
    Bowling Green, Ky
    intervalves...unless you have money to burn....I've got about 24K on mine and valves are staying adjusted just fine. Bought all my stuff as a kit from Motobins, but also did the rod bearings since I was in there. Check your rings too. Buy the complete kit from them it will be cheaper.,
    #16
  17. Solo Lobo

    Solo Lobo airhead or nothing

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Oddometer:
    9,694
    Location:
    Shoreline, WA
    Inter...
    #17
  18. elmontanero

    elmontanero Practicing...

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,047
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Okay... The heads have been taken down to Motor Works in National City. Yeah the guys that did my transmission and advertise in AirMail.
    I took the Barrels along to for them to take a look at. I'm supposed to hear back tomorrow on the news and quote.

    Old guy that owns the shop looked at the barrels and suggested doing the assembly old school: new rings, honed cylinders, saw the recessed valves and all.

    So... I've done the homework before and relooked it all over again. Honing on Nikasil is a argument, which valves to go with is an argument, sourcing Rings?, then the argument of breaking in the bike. Might as well throw it all in along with the type of 'sert to use.

    Kidding.. sort of. I'm getting a jig and I'm not telling which one. But I'd appreciate thoughts on:
    1) honing?
    2) sourcing rings (OEM? From whom?)
    3) after I get the bike together I'll ask the breaking in argument.

    :lol3
    #18
  19. One Less Harley

    One Less Harley OH.THAT'S GONNA HURT

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,455
    Location:
    Bowling Green, Ky
    ball hone, OEM rings and intervalves, with uprated guides....eventhough the BMW valves aren't that much higher at Motobins...so I guess that's your call.
    #19
  20. elmontanero

    elmontanero Practicing...

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,047
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Uprated guides? meaning? Sorry as I'm not as educated on this sort of things as I could be. Thanks for everyones contribution... can't be happier to have folks on here help.
    #20