Race Engines

Discussion in 'Racing' started by Karl772, Apr 3, 2012.

  1. Karl772

    Karl772 Rally Nut

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    I have always been fascinated with what a person means when they say 'race engine' when talking about Off-Road Motorbikes. What to the professional race teams actually do to make the engine better then a stock engine to make it a so called race engine?

    I am mostly referring to endurance events and Rallies Such as the Australasian Safari, The Dakar Rally, Condo 750, Abu Dhabi Desert Challenge etc. Basically multiple day Rally type events.
    #1
  2. tHEtREV

    tHEtREV Captain Awesome

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    Its a closely guarded secret...:D

    Would really depend on the event too.

    In an endurance event like The Safari the engines would be stock or close to stack with possibly an oil cooler fitted and maybe "blueprinted", but I guess they wouldn't call them "Race engines" unless they wanted to keep it fresh and have a different engine to use in a practice bike.

    So you would have your "race engine" looking all shiny sitting on a bench and a dirty old expendable practice engine in the bike until just before race day...

    As far as MX and shorter sprint events, the list is long on the stuff you could do.

    You can easily give an engine more power than a stock engine, but whether it is better than stock is debatable ( ie, needs to be rebuilt after each event).

    So in other words, I have no idea...:lol3
    #2
  3. tehdutchie

    tehdutchie Long timer

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    Oil channels, different valves, blue print, that kinda thing.
    #3
  4. klatelm

    klatelm Been here awhile

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    cubic dollars
    #4
  5. dmaxmike

    dmaxmike former quadtard.

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    Blue print, port, polish, cryo, shot peen, the list goes on. And that’s before you get to the real big number performance stuff. All of the things I listed make a motor run smoother and the parts stronger, therefore giving it longer life and higher power. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    #5
  6. klatelm

    klatelm Been here awhile

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    and light weight fastners :dllama
    #6
  7. xtop20A

    xtop20A Banned

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    your gitin some good answers,however

    thay run race ole,change it ever time they shut the motr off,you cant buy that ole
    top secret nuclure sparkplugs with no gap,as a matter of fact they dont even call 'em sparkplugs
    reverse injun-eared aleon teknolojy































    your mileage may very

    :hide
    #7
  8. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    What is a race engine...? :y0!

    I once overheard an old (70/80’s) desert racing legend make this comment about “race engines”; :deal<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    “If you need to ASK… you don’t really NEED to know…” :wink:
    <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> [​IMG]</o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    I reflected long and hard about those words, several times, over many years… and eventually I came to understand (I think?) what he meant;

    The term “race engine” is a blanket term used to describe an motor prepared in terms of performance and/or reliability, to provide those competitors already at the pinnacle of their sport with that last “poofteenth of an ounce” advantage over their equally as talented competition, in order to attain those last few percent of performance advantage, in order to take victory. :clap<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    A “race engine” persé; is a largely wasted commodity on the greater majority of mere mortal riders out there in bling-bling world… :brow Most of whom, in reality would see far greater gains made from paying attention to personal fitness, improved riding technique and an accumulation of competition experience… before spending the “cubic dollars” :D previously mentioned, that any mechanical engine performance or other motorcycle component related enhancement might provide. :nod<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    In any case… the term “race engine” plays – as our resident from down under DIY performance guru – tHE tREV will no doubt testify :lol3 – only a very minor role in the overall “race prep” of any “race bike”. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    As any bling-bling go fast connoisseur knows… it is the “RACE PIPE” that is the key element to attaining ultimate “race bike” supremacy. :1drink The “race engine” is merely the noise generation unit for the all important “race pipe” to weave it’s audible magic on the rider and his now mesmerized – soon to be vanquished – competitors in the “race track” parking lot! :huh:rayof<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    While the internal “voodoo” often related to the preparation of a “race engine” is of strategic propaganda value to the “boy racer” in the pre-event hype and psychological warfare that is engaged upon prior to competition… NOTHING is as effective as the audible will shattering roar that a true “race pipe” provides, when you fire it up in front of the bench racers accumulated behind your MXA/Monster decal adorned candy apple red pick-up on race day morning! :eek1<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    While the internal mod’s to a “race engine” provide a certain level of security in the mind of the rider… it is the visual attributes – like custom engraved ignition covers, anodized couplings/fittings and “safety wired” bolts (preferably titanium) that really instill fear into the very core of one’s Senior Vet Novice competition. So for that very reason, many forgo the (expensive) placebo benefits of the internal modifications and just go with the visual glitter, when preparing the “boy racer” engine. :D

    <o:p>[​IMG]</o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    The “race pipe” is not the only “must” as far as mere mortal race bike prep is concerned… :evil<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    “Race suspension” is another of the mythical motorcycle internal dark arts that manifests itself; often in the form of “trick decals” and a spring kit. These components are often accompanied by a much heralded but oh-so “slightly different to original-altogether better formula- with improved viscosity and non-stiction properties-accentuated by the flashy die colour additive in the oil” revolutionary suspension fluid product… that together with the springs and valves will have you ripping through the washboards line Barcia, Vilopoto and Co. in no time flat! (Though it is widely acknowledged that the SINGLE biggest improvement to the suspension, in actual fact comes from the placebo stickers included with every kit… if you don’t fit those… you’re f#¤%ed!). :huh

    <o:p>[​IMG]</o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    Which in turn, brings us to the final facet of race bike preparation… the decals! :rayof<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    99.9% of all bling-bling “race bike” preparation lies in the all important application of the stickers… One misplaced Mamsoil decal, or a SPLEEN-TECH suspension sticker not lined up perfectly, can have catastrophic consequences for the performance or handling of even the most meticulously prepared “race bike”. :lol3

    For that reason, in recent years many “boy racers” :bubba have learnt to put their faith in the customized sticker kit… The opportunity now available; whereby a rider may now cover an entire front guard, rear guard or radiator shroud with just one carefully designed fung sheui appropriate, color co-ordinated decal, has in recent years seen the caliber of bling-bling and rider performance in the intermediate to C-novice classes improve infinitesimally. :evil

    <o:p>[​IMG]</o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    Yes folks… obviously I am being facetious (again). :shog

    The OP - Karl (by way of a backwards introduction) first came to the attention of the collective members of the OzADV Forum/asylum a few weeks back when he enquired openly - from his self admitted “total n00b” status - about what is required to participate/compete in the Australasian Safari Rally… from a total beginner/inexperienced standpoint. By way of paraphrasing; one of the prime keynotes that cropped up was; “accumulation of knowledge, experience and physical/mental preparation… along with – obviously – the correct mount and mechanical prep. :thumb<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    But (motorcycling being the consumer product/bling pastime that it is), it is not uncommon that we “mere mortals” often begin with the wholesale modifications and refinements to the bike… not the other way around? After all, it is merely the rider that compliments the bikes skill and performance… isn’t it? A great bike will always win… even under a mediocre rider…? … or? :scratch<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    As another old (70/80’s decade) motocross legend, also once said;<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    “More races have been won as a result of reading the Husqvarna (rider training) manual, than the MOTO-X FOX catalogue”.

    <o:p>[​IMG]</o:p>


    :D
    #8
  9. pfdskipper

    pfdskipper Westside Trash

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    TSC.....You Sir, are ill. Great satire though.

    Come on motorheads, answer this guys inquiry. Break it down.

    It is understood that the specifics of the actual race being run would dictate the "race motor" setup.

    So lets keep it rally specific. How about Coma's motor for this last dakar. :ear:ear
    #9
  10. Luke

    Luke GPoET&P

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    :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl




    And where might we find a copy of this manual? Google thinks I want to ride a lawn tractor.
    #10
  11. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    :deal

    http://www.yourhusky.com/files/Husqvarna_Training_Manual.pdf

    Bearing in mind this manual was printed back in the late 70's/early 80's (you recieved a copy with every new husqvarana CR or WR model when purchased), so by today's enlightened cross training, gym patronage society standards; a lot of it may seem pretty self evident... even old hat. But at the time this was ground breaking stuff... and in fact the core values of this manual were the cornerstones for the majority of pro-MX and MX GP riders training regimens for much of the 80's into the nineties.
    #11
  12. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    Satire...? SATIRE...???!!! :scratch

    I was dead bl¤¤dy serious...! :huh
    #12
  13. spezjag

    spezjag Long timer

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    I've owned a copy of that training manual for nearly forty years. If you do everything in it, you will either drop dead from exertion or become incredibly fit rather quickly.

    Those Swedes were tough, Viking-like racers at their height!
    #13
  14. LocuL

    LocuL Gnarly Infantry

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    My race engine is SO secret i even don´t race it...

    [​IMG]

    :freaky
    #14
  15. LC Garage

    LC Garage On Any Sunday

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    Luke, can you be sure and get a copy before we leave for mexico, we may need this as a secret weapon in the battle for vintage supremacy! :D
    #15
  16. KZJohn

    KZJohn Been here awhile

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    I got a copy of that with my 83 500XC. The training in that book kicked my arse harder than riding that monster!

    As for the OP's original question - When a bike is designed for the mass market the engineers have to keep the cost per unit somewhere clse to affordable. While the bike may be a great bike it will also be a comprimise between cost and effectiveness. A good tuner will take that bike and modify it for the intended purpose ie rally, MX, dez, whatever. They will go through the engine and do a full inspection, measure the tollerences, replace or maching or adjust what doesn't measure up. Then put in higher quality,(hopefully!), components such as cams, pistons, bearings, etc. The tuner then will do an amazing amount of testing to find the best possible compination of said parts to achieve the desired perfomance goals. It can be very time consuming and expensive, but as it has been said " How fast can I go? How much money do you have?".
    #16
  17. tHEtREV

    tHEtREV Captain Awesome

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mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} </style> <![endif]--> My 525 that I am building for the Finke next year has the same suspension mods as the 525 pictured...

    [​IMG]



    Although my bike isn&#8217;t a 525 anymore&#8230; It&#8217;s a 540!

    As you can see I already have the race engine pulled down so I can add all the carbon fibre and anodized stuff to it as soon as I find it cheap on eBay, and I&#8217;ll probably throw a Pro X piston in it, but put Wiseco stickers on the bike&#8230;

    That will be cool.

    My cam has some scoring where the water pump seals go, so if Hot Cams supply stickers with their cams I will put one of them in&#8230;

    And while I had the top end out I painted it black!

    [​IMG]



    Sick!!

    So not only does it hide the inevitable oil leaks, but black is more thermally good than aluminium colour so it will run cooler, and put out more power!!!


    RAD!

    Now it&#8217;s like semi murdered out!

    Should look even better than my practice bikes engine!


    [​IMG]


    I can&#8217;t wait to actually ride it!


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mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} </style> <![endif]-->
    It&#8217;s gonna sound awesome through the full titanium FMF power bomb race pipe I have sitting on the shelf for it&#8230;

    And I&#8217;ll let you in on a secret Troy!

    I found an eBay seller in the UK that stocks blue plastics for EXC&#8217;s, I already have the rad shrouds and a WR headlight, and once I order the rest&#8230;

    Well I&#8217;m sure you can see where I am heading with it&#8230;


    [​IMG]


    RED BULL GRAFIX!!!



    It's going to be KILLA!!!
    #17
  18. silverboy

    silverboy Bunny

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Oddometer:
    544
    Location:
    Boulder.Colorado
    Ever noticed how every dirt bike for sale is sick fast!
    I'm with the satire guy, placebo effect is in full effect here.
    How many of us actually could use an additional 5 hp on our 450s? Id like to think it would make me a better rider, but guys on a 78 yamaha can still kick my ass...
    Its all about the rider. 2 stroke, 4 stroke, 1 stroke whatever. Its about the man behind the throttle more than the machine itself.
    That being said I dropped 1200 with Stillwell to make my suspension sweet and I paid out to have my heads decked to give me more compression.
    So, im racing. I just gained 1/10 a second in every turn. I race enduros. There are 100 turns in every test. 6 tests. = 600 turns. = 60 seconds.
    Is it worth it? Depends on if your winning or losing.
    #18
  19. tHEtREV

    tHEtREV Captain Awesome

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,064
    Location:
    Middle Park, Brisbane, Australia
    You mean like this random eBay add?

    The only thing I chainged in the add was deleating the phone number...

    I'm with you on the engine mods, I was actuallly quite dissapointed when I found out I had a 540 barrel instead of standard.

    I have been toying with the idea of getting a 525 or even a 450 cylinder for it.

    Even if I do make it to Finke, I doubt I could use all the power if it was a standard 450...

    I'd probably be just as fast (slow) on my 200.
    #19
  20. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Oddometer:
    21,595
    Location:
    "Pearl of the sound" - f5ederation of scandwegia
    tREV, tREV, tREV, tREV , tREV, tREV.... tREV... :rolleyes

    You poor, poor missunderstood soul... It's a pitty that you don't have a father figure/role model in your midst, to help guide you through these difficult, turbulent times...:wink: I understand that it must be a confusing time for a young and impressionable moto-head like yourself to be going through; what, with the myriad of choices and temptations that one is confronted with, like; Which colour plastics to go with? Do I choose the 525 hot.cam.com power-up kit or go with the org. KTM OEM 540 retro-fit...? Colour co-ordinated pro-grip hand grips and decals... or the complete ONE industries Bailey replica ensemble...? Decisions decisions... and then there is all that new hair growing in weird and mysterious places... truly trying times for the young apprentice with no sense(i). :lol3

    Reading through your meticulous prep-brief leaves me with one very worrying thought however...?! :huh Correct me if I am wrong, but you are actually considering using Wieseco, Hot.cams and FMF decals on the bike... at the SAME time...?:huh Do you KNOW what that will do to the moto-karmic feng sheui of the motorcycle if you do that boy!!?? :eek1 Man, you are toying with forces of the supernatural, that which you have no inkling what you tamper my son! :becca

    It's like having Öhlins AND WP stickers on the same bike...:nono there is every chance that you can create a rift in the moto-time/space continueum and tear the very molecular fabric of the bike apart!!! :eek1 If THAT happens - my poor missguided apprentice excavation architect-cum- banana bender... then all hell will break loose, and as the Doc said to Marty McFly; "No amount of fingering your flux-capacitator can save you now...!" :oscar

    The only thing that is possibly worse, is to have both FMF and Pro-Circuit decals on the machine simultaneously. :wink: In fact, it was exactly this specific miscalculation that has subsequently been traced back as the prime cause of the two black holes that occurred in Southern California back in the mid 80's and early 90's; and caused the self implosion and dissappearance of both Saddleback Park and Carlsbad raceway... :lol3

    On a 125cc Novice grid of an SRA GP at Carlsbad back in 1992; Jammin' Jimmy Specklethorpe of Conundrum California, had both a pro-circuit fork slider decal AND and an FMF racing decal on the sideplate of his Yama-Zinger High Chaps-are-swell Racing 125. This set off a chain reaction that saw the holy ground engulf by a black hole over the years that follwed and dissappear from the face of the earth... forever! :eek1 So BEWARE! :brow

    Also... tREV you are not seriously thinking of keeping the old Race Tech fork slider decals on... are you mate? Everyone knows that stickers are like airfilters... they should be changed EVERY race.... or if you're a DR rider... at least once a season... :rofl:jack

    Good luck with the "race prep" of your "race bike" dude... I am most certinly sure that it will turn out a fully sick, narly-good rad ride of bitchin' proporshun's man... that your homies will be totaly spewin' over... :thumb :evil

    much like this one...

    [​IMG]
    #20