Race Gas - where to buy?

Discussion in 'Trials' started by GasGas300, Jan 6, 2012.

  1. GasGas300

    GasGas300 Been here awhile

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    I like to mix my fuel at 70;1 oil and use half non ethanol premium and half race gas - But I can only find race fuel in 5 gallon containers. Now, if I was retired or had fewer other bikesto ride, I might be able to burn 10 gallons of gas before the race gas goes bad. But that is not the case.

    Anyone know where I can get race fuel by the gallon?
    #1
  2. Pro_Marinero

    Pro_Marinero Carbon Sasquatch

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    Short is answer is... you can't, at least to my knowledge.

    You have a couple of options. You could try your local airport and make a 100LL/ethanol-free 92 pump mix (my preferred method). Or, try Torco Unleaded Accelerator with some good supreme ethanol-free. The mixing charts are on that page.
    #2
  3. Bob_M

    Bob_M Been here awhile

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    Try racegas.com. It locates Sunoco dealers with Cam 2.

    I'm in RI and I found Cam 2 at a pump for about $10/gal at an Irving gas station. It has ethenol but hasn't caused me any problem in my 1996 Gas Gas.

    Bob
    #3
  4. BikePilot

    BikePilot Long timer

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    Yes a few gas stations will have race gas, but that is very hit or miss. There's not one anywhere near where I live right now.

    You could run straight race gas rather than mixing it, that way you'll use it up more quickly :deal Also, race gas kept in a cool dark spot in the metal drum lasts quite a lot longer than you might expect.
    #4
  5. Wingboy

    Wingboy Been here awhile

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    I don't have a trials bike (yet).My ducati trackbike runs C12 fuel to prevent detonation because of the 12.8/1 comp ratio.Why are folks running race gas in their trialers?What does the bikes manual say?More octane does not always equal more hp without a bunch of mods.
    Btw.Race gas kept in a tightly sealed container is good for a year
    #5
  6. Pro_Marinero

    Pro_Marinero Carbon Sasquatch

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    Most trials bikes like 95 octane. They will ping on pump gas under a load. Full race gas isn't necessary but cutting it with pump gas works well.
    #6
  7. modeselector

    modeselector Common as muck

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    Very easy - just figured this out with a bit of help from Pro_Marinero. Most airfields have a self-serve pump with the 100 Av. Price was only $5.78 per gallon, 10 minutes away and open 24/7. :thumb
    #7
  8. BikePilot

    BikePilot Long timer

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    Wingboy, trials bikes tend to have fairly high compression, tiny and low little ports and get run at low rpm and high throttle openings--many will ping on pump gas. My montesa is fine on 93 pump gas, but it is also a older motor in a more mild state of tune than most newer bikes. They use so little fuel the extra expense of race gas is negligible, but getting it in a reasonable quantity is a pain.
    #8
  9. dmay

    dmay Been here awhile

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    I usually consume 1 gallon total fuel in a 4 loop trials event,I've even done events without refuelling or even switching to reserve. Cost is negligible on a trials bike,I've thrown out enough fuel in the past year to pay the race gas difference. Race gas will keep much longer.
    Make sure the race fuel you get isn't "oxygenated" as that's the phrase for alcohol in the fuel.
    #9
  10. Wingboy

    Wingboy Been here awhile

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    Thanks.I guess things have changed.I competed back in the late 70's and early 80's and all i used was regular leaded with MC1 at 80/1.I might sell a bike in my garage and buy a modern trialer to see if i still have it.:D
    #10
  11. motojunky

    motojunky Professional Idiot

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    My local drag strip sells several flavors of race gas in any quantity. You might check with yours. My local small airport will not sell me Avgas without proof of plane ownership. Fortunately, another not too far away will.
    #11
  12. Pro_Marinero

    Pro_Marinero Carbon Sasquatch

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    A little info from the GasGas USA site. Tech Guru Jon Stoodley:

    Q. My riding buddies say I should run race gas in my bike. Is this necessary? It costs alot and is sometimes hard to get.

    A. Each bike's octane requirements are slightly different based on a number of variables, such as compression ratio, combustion chamber design, jetting, riding conditions etc. Most Trials bikes (with under 170 lbs cranking pressures) do fine on 92 or 93 octane pump gas. (*NOTE* - Gas Gas recommends at least 95 octane).

    One of the possible symptoms of a need for higher octane is the 'pinging' or metallic rattle from an engine. This is sometimes noticed when the throttle is 'chopped' (closed quickly) or when the engine is under heavy load (full or partial throttle), like a hillclimb. Try retarding the ignition timing slightly (about .5 mm at a time measured at the stator plate) and see if that doesn't clean up the pinging. This will also tend to make power delivery smoother and you may find this better for your riding style. Make sure your jetting is correct for your riding area.

    I run a 50/50 mix of race gas and high-octane pump gas. I like the extra octane as a 'reserve' in case I have a problem with overheating (clogged radiator) or changing atmospheric conditions that don't suit my present jetting. Race gas stays 'fresher' longer (at least three weeks in a well sealed steel container, plastic containers are porous) but I add a little gas stabilizer just in case. Just be sure to mix a batch of fresh premix each time you ride. As for you Ute Cup guys, you might find that you have LOWER octane requirements. Race gas burns slower (thats one of the ways it resists detonation) and the lower cranking pressures at altitude sometimes call for faster burning gas for better performance and ease of jetting.


    http://www.gasgas.com/Pages/Technical/gas.html

    If I remember right the compression ratio on most trials bikes isn't that high, like 9.2 or 9.5:1. It's the porting and mid expansion chamber design that cause a lot of the detonation issues.
    #12
  13. BikePilot

    BikePilot Long timer

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    Yes, compression ratio is just one factor, some really high CR things are fine on pump gas (I've ridden 14:1 sport bikes with huge cams that did fine on pump gas), other things with low CRs still need high octane.

    Also note that 9ish:1 is fairly high for a ~250cc two stroke. A MX bike will typically be lower, my '01 CR250R, which is arguably one of the most highly tuned production 250cc two strokes honda has ever made is 8.5:1.

    I doubt its accuracy, but this site http://montesacota315.com/en/tuning.html says my Montesa is 14:1.

    Also note that measuring compression ratio is a bit funny on two strokes. Do you measure head volume as a percentage of total displacement or just swept area above the ceiling of the exhaust port? What if the exhaust port ceiling moves with rpm?
    #13
  14. broncobowsher

    broncobowsher Long timer

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    What's fun is getting them to open the gate so you can pull the boat (on trailer) up to the self serve pump.

    Local race track (drag strip, circle track) will usually have a vender selling race gas.

    I have had non-oxygenated gas last over a year even when not properly stored (lost over half a tank due to evaporation), and it was still good.

    I run it simply because of the insane cylinder pressures that are used to get good torque from small displacments. The cost is negligable, 110 octane leaded gas is about $8 a gallon at the pump (across the highway from firebird raceway). I get 2 gallons at a time and make the premix out of it, put that stuff in the pressure washer as well. I am sure the top end of that Briggs & Stratton is well lubed. again, use so little it is simplier to just keep one fuel around the house that will run the hedge trimmer, trials bike and the pressure washer. With all that I typically go through about 4-5 gallons a year.

    Another thing I found, the bike starts better on some fuels then others. I find the VP race gas is the best starting.
    #14
  15. TXNMGUY

    TXNMGUY dirt dobber

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    I use AVGAS 100LL from our small airport. I just tell them that it is not for street use. I mix 50:1 for my air cooled 74' TY250 two gallons at a time. Last week it was $4.61 a gallon.
    #15
  16. Rogue_Ryder

    Rogue_Ryder 速 Flat Biller 速

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    I wouldn't use AVGas in my bike. Too much lead to foul plugs plus the stuff's quality isn't that consistent.

    Sunoco or 76 sell 100 octane race gas. Some bike shops and Cycle Gear sell it in metal cans.
    [​IMG]
    #16
  17. Pro_Marinero

    Pro_Marinero Carbon Sasquatch

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    Examples?

    I make my fuel in 5 gallon batches. 3 gallons 100LL avgas to 2 gallons ethanol-free supreme. Never had a fouled plug. I learned this from a guy who's been riding trials since Greeves made bikes, and he's never had issues either.

    The only other thing I might try is Torco's Unleaded Accelerator in pump gas.
    #17
  18. Pro_Marinero

    Pro_Marinero Carbon Sasquatch

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    Good point. There's a big difference between BDC and above the ports. Someone will be along presently to clear this up... :deal
    #18
  19. motojunky

    motojunky Professional Idiot

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    I have heard lots of "don't use AvGas" but nobody has been able to tell me exactly why. I have found plenty of people who have been using it for years without issue. I have been using AvGas since late summer with no problems.

    I was using VP fuel at $9/gal with great results. The price went up to $15/gal over the summer. AvGas is $5.50/gal.

    There is no ethanol free fuel available at the pump anywhere near me (yes, I've checked the websites :D). My Scorpa tank cannot withstand ethanol.

    I will continue to use AvGas until I see some solid evidence as to why I should not.

    YMMV!
    #19
  20. broncobowsher

    broncobowsher Long timer

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    The only "don't use AV gas" I have heard issues with is trying to use it in a high RPM engine. Something about flame speed
    #20