Rally Navigation Roadbook Creation

Discussion in 'Racing' started by c.vestal, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. c.vestal

    c.vestal Rally On

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  2. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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  3. pfb

    pfb Riding, not skiing.

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    Scott is the expert at roadbook creation, but when I think of maybe creating my first amateur roadbook, there are a few challenges I think about... And I'll also assume that if I where to create one, it would be in Colorado where aerial/sat images are not nearly as useful for creation of a route.

    • How do I make the route interesting and unique, and tailor it for the riding skill level, types of bikes, and roadbook experience of the participants?

    • How to take a general route concept to a basic roadbook plan? Pre-ride the entire route without worrying about any notes, just scope the entire route, then go back a second/third/fourth time to make notes and verify? Or try and make some notes the first time through?

    • Once I have a route and most of the turns documented in some sort of fashion, how do I create/distribute a more professional looking roadbook, especially if I truly suck at drawing?

    • What readily available computer tools make the job easier? What tools are more work then they are worth?

    • Whats the best way to organize an event so I don't spend hours and hours putting together a roadbook that never gets ridden? :lol3

    What my tulip diagrams would end up looking like....

    "enter through mom's right leg, follow her dress around to the left, and exit through her left arm. If you reach her head roundabout, you went to far"
    [​IMG]
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  4. beechum1

    beechum1 Grimace Soup

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  5. beechum1

    beechum1 Grimace Soup

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    [​IMG]
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  6. beechum1

    beechum1 Grimace Soup

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  7. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    Based on the comments in the earlier thread, I think way too much time is being spent on thinking about tools to make roadbooks instead of going out and actually making a roadbook. Who cares if your roadbook looks like a Picasso or chicken scratches and stick men! You'll learn qucikly what aspects are important and what's just making things pretty by going out and actually doing it.

    Sketch out a few lines on a sheet of paper like the blank sample below, make 10 copies, then go out and create a short roadbook. I assure you, even with the most exotic roadbook making tools it's still a lot of work. The tools only make it SLIGHTLY easier. Most people will burn out after making their first roadbook, so better to get that done and over with quickly. After you've done a few roadbooks with pencil and paper, you'll know what features to look for in a software tool.

    And if I'm following some else's roadbook, I'd much rather it be creative, fun, challenging and hand-drawn than a boring ride and boring navigation in a work of art roadbook. Think about what will make the ride and navigation interesting, fun, and challenging, not what will make the paper pretty.

    Attached Files:

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  8. Stagehand

    Stagehand Imperfectionist

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    One of the exercises in Jimmy Lewis's roadbook school is the creation of a road book, you must draw your own! We only did a 20 mile course or so, following tracks on the GPS, but it was one of my favorite parts of the whole experience.
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  9. beechum1

    beechum1 Grimace Soup

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    I have some tracks to follow this weekend that i scouted on GE. Im going to follow them and then go back to GE o make a roadbook to follow the next weekend. And so forth until the v2r.
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  10. pfb

    pfb Riding, not skiing.

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    Good advice... My inner engineer was overcomplicating things. As it has a tendency to do! :lol3
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  11. greglewis

    greglewis Adventurer

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    First of all - Chris, thank you for starting this thread.

    I have been searching for a tool, method, whatever, to take a gps track and turn it into a road book. Probably not every comment, but at least the turns (left, right, bear left, etc) and mileage. Anyone got any sources...ideas...good jokes?

    Thanks from the great flat, paved wastes of Illinoisistan.

    Greg :D
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  12. beechum1

    beechum1 Grimace Soup

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    Post #2.
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  13. Myway

    Myway Long timer

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  14. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    Hog makes a lot of sense.... I just threw out my computer:lol3

    I've already made a few Roll charts and I never found the process to be that daunting. The only difference between my roll charts and an RB is the format and on a roll chart, I don't describe every bump and ditch. I must be doing it wrong to be having that much fun? Adding the extra info seems like just more fun.

    I've always used a pencil and a sheet of lined paper for my roll charts, so I totally understand what you're saying. At the same time, why not try to improve the method to make it easier and maybe less daunting for people that don't seem to enjoy it as much? Anyway, I can get online for 5 minutes and discuss RB creation, I can't use that 5 minutes to create one. Research is important, I've learned a lot already.
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  15. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    The "bracket" thread is still off track, so I’m taking this post from there and answering in here…

    That’s sort of the argument that was used in the revival of the Mexican 1000 Rally, where you can use GPS tracks or paper roadbook (or both). Fortunately, in that race things are moving in the opposite direction to what you describe. It looks like next year roadbook navigation will become more important than ever.

    In an event like Dakar, navigation is a MAJOR factor. It's a completely different race than something like the Baja 1000, or the past 3 Mexican 1000 races where the course is known ahead of time. A GPS is used in Dakar, but it doesn't show a track or route or any kind of map. It's mostly for providing your current heading, a few special waypoints (once you're very close to them), and a few other things. In the 2005 Dakar they changed the way the GPS worked. It showed a "corridor" defining the race course. That made it way too easy to navigate. Everyone complained about it, so they took that function away the next year. If you look at most of the other cross-country rallies (we don't have any in the USA), they also rely on paper roadbooks, with challenging navigation being a key component. If anything, I think the sport is growing, in part because that mental challenge of navigation is missing from other types of racing.

    Lifted from one of my posts in another thread...
    When you use GPS, you always know where you’re going. When you always know where you’re going, you never get lost. When you never get lost, you miss out on big adventures. When you miss out on big adventures, your life becomes a bore. When your life becomes a bore, you sit at home and watch DirecTV all day. Don’t sit at home watching DirecTV all day, race with a roadbook!
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  16. Brodovitch

    Brodovitch Team ⌘R

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    Missed it the first time 'round, but, amen to that! :clap
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  17. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    It's not really possible to do that unless you stick 100% to well mapped roads that are in modern digital maps. If you stick to such roads, you can use Google Maps to make a ROUTE that gives you text directions ("Left", "Right", etc.) as well as mileages. That's a basic roadbook, though it would be missing proper tulip drawings. As soon as you go off on a dirt trail, or even more challenging stuff like open dunes, you're stuck with doing it by hand. There is a new rally roadbook tool being developed that will help with the mileages and a few other things, but it's FAR from being able to take a GPS track file and convert it into a roadbook. How would it know about a hazard such as a washout in a road, or a lone tree that you have to make a turn at? In my view, a good challenging roadbook ride would stay off most well defined roads as much as possible.
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  18. Myway

    Myway Long timer

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    I hear topriders saying the roadbook was not correct. (mudgate).
    I wonder if Coma, Depres, etc. ever made one for others.
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  19. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    Have you tried the iPad app? From past experience, hand writing a route and then converting it to a digital file is a pain in the ass. It looks like the app allows easy sharing of the RB file, you can even email it from the pad.


    If the point of the RB is to avoid using a GPS, not sure why a GPS is even in the equation...can you explain that to me? Is it so you can create a road book at home instead of going out and riding it? To be clear, all my routes are in a roll chart format and not all of the routes will show up on a GPS, so I'll need to ride it.

    Thank you for your help by the way, much appreciated
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  20. greglewis

    greglewis Adventurer

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    Thanks for the responses. Here is what I would like to do:

    I have the gps downloads for the TWAT from the BigDog Adventures site (maybe its roklym?). However, I don't want to use a gps, I would like to ride the trail using a roadbook or rollchart. So, I'd like to find a way to convert them to a roadbook. However, I'm beginning to think it's near impossible. As has been pointed out, a gps is pretty easy to use. An odometer and roadbook is more of a challenge. But, to me, that's part of the lure - to learn how to navigate.

    Greg :1drink
    #20