Rallye navigation bracket photo thread

Discussion in 'Racing' started by wrk2surf, May 4, 2011.

  1. jack splash

    jack splash Two Sheds

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    Hey: IMHO, it seems like all the effort going into the road book holder mount, and the creation of the road book itself, just to adhere to the old school rally ways, is alot like forcing enduro riders to use an odometer, route sheet and wrist watch.

    Then the converstaion changes direction (no pun intended ) to Ipad / android based navigation and apps.

    I learned from Rallyconnex (www.rallyconnex.com) appx 8 or 9 years ago about Garmin Chartplotter navigation using the GPS III, or IV, then moving onto the 176 and 276 models. I have created and organized the Pine Barrens 300 and 500 events using this format appx 10 times, ( www.pinebarrens500.org) with appx 100 riders. It works. It seems everyone is trying to reinvent the wheel, Hog Wild said it best, theres lots of ideas but no one has created an event using them or tested thier ideas in a real event, with many riders. At least none that have been sucessful and run mutliple times.

    I understand the argument about roadbook only events, but as soon as you allow a gps into the equation, things change.

    I've had many discussions with riders entering the PB300 about why don't I use android format blab blab blab. The answer is there's no standard format or app yet. If riders decide to use an unsupported format and get lost or can't load their device, who's fault is it? The organizer or the rider? With Garmin GPS mapsource / chartplotter devices as a standard, it all works. The cost is less or equal to the roadbook holder and brackets being developed but have yet to be proven in competition. This forum has many threads of guys who spent lots of $$$ to enter a Rally with untested one off designs, that failed.

    Now I haven't run events out west, but I have entered many in Canada and organized many sucessful GPS only events on the east coast.

    Maybe using existing standard (marine and aviation) navigation devices deserves another look. I was watching a show on the Discovery channel , Wild Alaska, I think, and the pilots, in the most remote area in North America were using Garmin 276C GPS's to find their way.

    Just saying.


    Jack
  2. c.vestal

    c.vestal Rally On

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    All good thoughts. Mind copy pasting here?

  3. Baja Dad

    Baja Dad Long timer

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    What skill do you need to follow a GPS arrow?????? and a route line on your screen ????
    ZERO ________________________________!!!!
    Racing by a roadbook ( roll chart ) is a lot of FUN!!!!
    JMO!!!
  4. beechum1

    beechum1 Grimace Soup

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    Zooming in so you don't miss the turn!
  5. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to Asphalt!

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    +1
  6. theantipaul

    theantipaul Reforming Neandertal

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    And most here would argue skill and adventure too!
  7. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    You're in the wrong thread. The real point here is, what skill is needed in buying a RAM mount for your GPS????? Much more fun and challenging to design and build your own compete rally navigation bracket! :D
  8. tileman

    tileman Been here awhile

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    +1.
  9. jack splash

    jack splash Two Sheds

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    I know what your saying and I agree, enduro computers take the thinking out of those events too, my checkmate tells me if I'm late , on time or early with a quick glance. But go to an enduro these days and no one is using the old school timekeeping equipment.

    My point was, that if you allow GPS's into the event, the roadbook becomes less important, or not necessary.

    BTW, here's my roadbook setup. I'm not against a roadbook event, but I think it has to be roadbook only to be challenging.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Another setup on my 650


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I've entered many enduros with these setups to test them for reliablity.

    Jack
  10. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    Hey Jack, at the MX1K this they ran both and in my experience, the RB was the better choice for navigation and information about the route. The GPS just offered a line on a flat surface but the RB offered clues to the terrain and landmarks for navigation. At times, the RB didn't offer information and the GPS would fill in the gaps but the RB was the best option.

    Having never even looked at a RB before starting the race, it took me a few days to get accustomed to it and to trust it, but I did. On Day 2 my GPS was in my pocket:lol3 I guess I'm agreeing with but only if the RB is good.
  11. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to Asphalt!

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    Hey Jack,

    Where is your switch to scroll the roadbook. I'm not seeing it.


    At first i thought you had ingeniously wired your TT roadbook to the turnsignal switch, but then I saw you had turn signals.


    Thanks, Dan
  12. jack splash

    jack splash Two Sheds

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    Crank: The GPS info used at the M1K was most likely just a "track", a line of a previously traveled path. At the PB300 we use a "route" a waypoint by waypoint giudance system. Theres an arrow also called a "pointer" that tells when to turn. And as Hogwild mentioned in his posts about making the tulips, the placement of the waypoints for the route are the important detail, if you put the waypoint to close to the turn, riders blow by it. If it's to far from the turn, they get confused. We preride the "route" many times, to make sure the pointer turns at the right time. Just like hogwild prerides his tulips. We also get riders with no local knowledge, who never rode the course to see how someone can follow the route for prerides.

    Jack
  13. jack splash

    jack splash Two Sheds

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    Dan: I broke it. :D if I ever need the roadbook, I'll buy another.


    Jack
  14. Baja Dad

    Baja Dad Long timer

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    Hey Jack,
    What faring is this? I like the look of this. More pics PLEASE!!
    [​IMG]
  15. jack splash

    jack splash Two Sheds

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    Hey: Just to be clear, I'd love to do a roadbook event. I'd also like the enduros to go back to real timekeeping, but thats not going to happen.

    Keeping time in an enduro was what made it fun and challenging. I started riding enduros in the mid 70's, before electronic watches and timers. Over the years, enduro computers evolved into devices that tell you when your hot, possible check placements and everything else you might want to know, except wheres the taco stand. :evil

    Now, the national "enduro" series got rid of the timekeeping altogether, because the new riders don't to buy the timekeeping equipment or learn how to use it. A national enduro now is just a bunch of "start controls" and a series of sprints. No fun at all, you might as welll enter a hare scramble or MX. The old school enduro is dead on the US national circuit.


    If the plight of enduro timekeeping tells us anything, it won't be long before the old school roadbook goes the way of the wrist watch and route sheet. I can hear it now, the official reason will be something like, "in order to get more and younger riders, the Rally committe has decided that any smart phone will be accepted as a navigation device"

    :cry


    Jack
  16. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    oh yea, Connex style. The MX1k did have just a line, you're right. Having ridden the Paris to Dacre using that format, I blew past a few turns:lol3
  17. c.vestal

    c.vestal Rally On

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  18. jack splash

    jack splash Two Sheds

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    Bajadad: Thanks, it's a touratech item for the HP2, it came with HID lights to. I'm not sure if it's still available and most likely you can't purchase just the fairing, but that would be a great idea.

    I'll put more pics up later today.

    jack
  19. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    Since another thread was created to discuss the roadbooks (the paper part) as opposed to the brackets, I've responded over there (post 15) ...
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=801843
  20. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    Received the 690 version of the HDB rally lite mount on Friday. As usual, the quality is amazing and the entire mount is very light and strong.

    First, the base plate/damper mount....

    [​IMG]

    Then the lower bar clamps....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Then the top bar clamp goes on....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    After the bars clamp is done, it's time to mount the lower nav tower bracket on the lower triple clamp.....

    [​IMG]

    Upper tower bolts on base plate...

    [​IMG]

    Everything is kept loose until all the bolts are installed then everything gets tightened up. I'm waiting for the headlights, so I'll finish the install next week. Looking forward to testing it out!