Rallye navigation bracket photo thread

Discussion in 'Racing' started by wrk2surf, May 4, 2011.

  1. TobyG

    TobyG be happy :)

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Oddometer:
    612
    Location:
    Nemčija

    Why they switched to watercooled bikes and more and more are switching to FI?
    Because FI has proven to be very, very reliable and watercoolers, well, the advantages (more effective cooling, especially in low speed situations) simply overshadow the risk of damaging the radiator(s).

    Now let's take Barreda's ride at this years Dakar.

    How many times did he completely destroy his Nav tower?
    2, 3 or even 4 times?
    His coolers seem to have survived all this carnage (has there been a puncture?), the FI didn't make problems, either, unless I missed something?

    Even though his Roadbook has been completely f-ed up a couple times he was still able to continue,
    probably by literally ripping the paper out, at least one of the tripmasters still seemed to work after all every single crash he had.
    Now if you had a all-in-one electronic unit, I doubt it would've survived all those crashes anywhere close to working condition. And how many spares are you gonna carry? They aren't exactly small units.
  2. emmodg

    emmodg Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2007
    Oddometer:
    186
    Location:
    Orange, VA
    I'm sure bike engineers and builders would love to see less "clutter" to have to deal with and find room for. Imagine the KTM's sleek light-weight one piece carbon tower holding a single screen instead of 4 separate pieces of gear.

    I hear ya' though. Each to his own opinion I guess... You see it as not happening, I see it as an eventual inevitability.:beer
  3. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,327
    Location:
    Sunshine coast qld
    That tablet thingy would be just what I'm looking for if it had this feature as well
    https://www.chariotgauge.com/

    I'm talking for more adventure bike stuff and not specifically rally racing.

    How good would it be to have the screen displaying your GPS map but with a temp and oil pressure or what ever else you want displayed in the corner and then have preset warnings for low pressure, over temp or what ever so that the screen flashes up the sensor info on the full screen.

    I'm building a bike at the moment and I've been looking into multi display gauges but to have everything I want displayable the bike would have a cockpit like a 747.

    Some one please build what I want.


    Thanks
  4. dansin

    dansin Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2012
    Oddometer:
    322
    Location:
    Worcestershire, UK
    The software version is only €39. It'll run on a windows CE device which a lot of the cheapo sat navs are. Stick that in a waterproof case and you're away. I've got one sat in a drawer somewhere...
  5. 640 Armageddon

    640 Armageddon -oo-

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,847
    Location:
    Greece
    Forget about the numbers for the moment (Although he is right in the ball mark), back in to 2009 things were a little it different. But read the point that this inmate is making >>

    Look also at Diabolico Rally discussion. They need a GPS unit, but it has to be compatible with such and such. Imagine what Anders says. Every single orga would have to comply with this standard. And always see the financial impact on the orga.
    If it costs them money, they will just do not run it. Period. I have spoken with a couple of orga people, big rallies and such, and I discussed the option to make a collision warning devise. The technology is there and it could save lives. It really could.
    the answer always is ''how much'' . Because to develop such a thing, they need a system. It all comes down to this simple question...

    Navigation is a very important aspect in a rally. That is why you calibrate the tripmaster, that is why you do not have a GPS, and that is why you do not have the electronic version of the road. Because then, it is a sprint race to the finish.
    If and organization like Dakar is to use it, you need support.
    Look what happened with iritracks this year... Even in 2013 we are not able to follow the rally because sth stupid happens to the irritracks and we are left speculating, pressing F5 in our keyboards...
    Then you have to ''convince'' the orga that this version is actually better (and cheaper) than the old one. And then you have to make every single rider in the field switch. That is giving another USD 1000 for a new tower and the unit.

    Don't think I'm being pessimistic and such. I love technology as much as the next guy. But I think that the target are not the racers. The target of this are people who are touring. And the market potential is huge there. Races are what? 5%? 10%? There are people buying the full catalogue of Touratech as we speak going on holidays with every single gadget on the planet. These are the people who would buy it... :freaky
  6. mrwwwhite

    mrwwwhite Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    Oddometer:
    638
    Location:
    Bucharest or RTW
    I think the remote, software + something like this https://www.meetearl.com would be a cheaper option but it's true for the moment it's intended more for amateurs/adventure market. Wondering how the remote is connected to the device but I believe is straight forward. (USB/BT).
    The ability to connect the device to the ECU and have all the info would be amazing also in both cases (adv/rally).
  7. Gany

    Gany Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2007
    Oddometer:
    368
    Location:
    Melbourne, Au

    About the closest thing to that I saw was from inmate Portabledash: http://users.eastlink.ca/~reastwood/

    Most of his links in the vendor thread appear to be dead now... Not sure how far the project went.

    Your next bike build might need to be a Harley though Joe!
  8. Happe

    Happe Offroad Nut

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Oddometer:
    684
    Location:
    Wales UK
    Why not getting the full nine yards and do away with all the cockpit gizmos and use Google Glases, or googly eyes as they should have been named ...?
    Or one more on top, connect direct to your visual nerve system ....
    And because Rallies then would become very fast why not use drone riders for safety? and remote control them from your couch via your PS4/XBox or Nintendo Wee :wink:
    Or learn to play snooker ....

    Stefan
  9. Deadly99

    Deadly99 Fast and Far

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Oddometer:
    10,153
    Location:
    Merrickville, Canada
    Hi Paul :wave

    I started putting the kit together. Very nice fit and finish :nod

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]



    End goal is a rally bike for under 6k
  10. HellasRally

    HellasRally Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Oddometer:
    155
    This http://www.tripy.eu/en is already used in Dakar, ASO is working with these guys.
    They only use it so far for support and orga roadbooks, but FIM CCRR committee is seriously thinking of it for the short future to be used officially.
    Organizers of major Rallies (WCH races, Dakar) as FIM guys told me, push hard for it since to be honest it cuts a serious part of a rally budget (printing) makes daily changes on roadbook piece of cake especially for a rally that is in the middle of nowhere and can combine some xtra features in one box (like RF sensor for CPs, GPS etc).
    Actually trippy people have a special box for dakar and they have already provided to ASO special tools for their own roadbook procedure (scouting, designing etc).
    They also include some nice software which can edit or create tracks and roadbook (very similar to Mike;s navigator concept) using vector maps while a google earth plug in should be easy.
    I am using it for 3 years while scouting and this year Hellas rally will have a special class for it with 5-6 bikers who asked for it.
    It has, trip master, cap repeater and compass, digital roadbook, gps nav, gps plotter, accepts vector maps etc.
    all of it for a cost lower than a full equipped cockpit.
    Still doing rallies with a paper roadbook is like cooking your own food rather than put a box in the microwave oven.
    But be ure that this is the short future for most of the major races, especially desert ones.
  11. 640 Armageddon

    640 Armageddon -oo-

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,847
    Location:
    Greece
    Nice one Ted,

    I like the ''empty handlebar'' setup :fitz I see you got the light version of the tower. Amazing, isint it?
    What lights will you be using? :hmmmmm What roadbook holder? :evil

    I am preparing both the berg and the 640 Adv at the moment... boy the things will be beasts :wings
  12. Deadly99

    Deadly99 Fast and Far

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Oddometer:
    10,153
    Location:
    Merrickville, Canada

    :wave

    Cheapo lights due to budget and I don't foresee a bunch of night riding. Advmonster LED's

    Roadbook....why an Aurora one of course :freaky


    Yes indeed the tower is much more sturdy than I was anticipating (I was a hit nervous to be honest). It appears to be a perfect solution. Price, weight, ease of install, etc are great :nod
  13. tehdutchie

    tehdutchie Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,891
    Location:
    Amsterdam or on Twitter @antal
    We already run digital roadbooks at the Leppink events. Gerjan made 2 classes, digital (as in tripy) and analogue (paper).

    He pre rides and creates all the stages, using maps, paper, the tripy and locals, no Google earth stuff here.

    Tripy II units work much better then the old ones that couldn't hold a signal. The units come with a 5 year warranty but expect to break about 40% of the units during a weeks riding.

    Still the best there is and not many come even close imho.


    http://leppinkadventure.nl/index.php/nl/deelnemers-2/roadbook-navigatie
  14. emmodg

    emmodg Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2007
    Oddometer:
    186
    Location:
    Orange, VA
    Yeah.... It's coming.
  15. Deadly99

    Deadly99 Fast and Far

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Oddometer:
    10,153
    Location:
    Merrickville, Canada
    40% failure rate?

    Costs a lot to get into, get to, etc a rally. I'd want to be damn sure my rally wasn't going to end due to a failure in the nav gear...
  16. 640 Armageddon

    640 Armageddon -oo-

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,847
    Location:
    Greece
    Hey techdutchie :wave

    What faults do they develop? :hmmmmm
  17. 640 Armageddon

    640 Armageddon -oo-

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,847
    Location:
    Greece
    If it's coming with a 40% failure rate I'd say it's not coming at all :lol2
  18. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Gone a bit Baja

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,528
    Location:
    Somewhere west of Laramie...
    Exactly... and at least with Dakar and FIM events, they have the luxury of Iritrack and a recovery helicopter... in amateur level events, getting seriously lost is potentially far more dangerous.

    I will try and explain for those unfamiliar with RALLY navigation - the whole point to a Rally Raid event is the navigation, and your ability to process the instructions and information which in turn allows you ride the course the organisers had intended you follow.

    Having three separate devices - the road book, the ICO (tripmeter) and a CAP (compass) heading - typically via GPS, either your own in amateur events, or the Orga UNIK unit in FIM/Dakar) means that should any one* of those items fail at any point, you still have a good change of navigating your way off the stage.

    This is primarily for your own safety of course, but as Deadly99 says - you have paid a lot to enter this event, you don't want it all over due to a [single unit] failing with your navigation gear?

    The idea is that you relay on each item pretty much equally, and depending on terrain any one of those going wrong can have a lesser of greater effect.

    For example in open terrain (off piste) not having a cap heading is potentially a big problem, but not incermountable if you still have the roadbook and the ICO working to show how far you've gone, and hopefully winding the roadbook forward will reveal some landmark for you to aim for.

    Similarly, if the ICO goes down (which is why a lot of riders double up on these), again you are in trouble, but at least you can wind the roadbook forward and see a landmark (whether than is a tree, tyre, track junction) and have a pretty good idea what to look for...

    I think you see where I am going with this?

    Yes, if the mechanical roadbook jams or breaks (in an accident) - you can still physically take the roll of paper and wind it forward to see the instructions... If it was electronic, you would be screwed.

    *Even if two items, or even all three all fail - with a physical, printed roadbook, you can still see the instructions - all the way to the finish, or at least a CP/safe point.



    I don't doubt an electronic 'all in one' device such as the OffroadNAVI would be an awesome device (it's the first time I've seen one of those particular units) for trail riding and general travel - and I've always thought an iPad Mini in a tough box would be an excellent 'dashboard' on a trail bike - running for example Garmin GPS software in conjunction with Google Maps/Earth and whatever else you fancied, in a decent sized screen - but I cannot see competition organisers, nor the competitors themselves wanting to risk a DNF (or even their lives) on a single piece of equipment, and especially an electronic one?

    Yes these things can be made tough - but even the ERTF GPS UNIK and Iritrack devices used on FIM/Dakar events fail, and those are military specification and unavailable to buy - and whatismore they are not fundamental to your navigation.

    Jx
  19. tehdutchie

    tehdutchie Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,891
    Location:
    Amsterdam or on Twitter @antal
    We run the Tripy's with the roadbook and GPS units with just waypoints as back up/parallel.

    The Tripy II's are waterproof, but only so much ofcourse. Running them in all weather does take the life out of them. Screens then die and that's the end. If the units lock, you can remove the 'internal' card and the unit reboots. No worries there, but water/cold/sun combination kills all these things. ICO's/RNS units and the likes all die too. Funnily enough the garmins that we run to match the roadbooks with waypoints seem to last best.

    Return the faulty Tripy's to the factory and you'lll get new units/refurbished units.

    Out of the 40% that die during an event I think we can split them evenly between crashes and 'electrical' faults.
  20. tehdutchie

    tehdutchie Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,891
    Location:
    Amsterdam or on Twitter @antal
    Our organisor brings spare units and offers them as rentals too. So we are covered, but if you break a unit during the day, you'll need to find a buddy fast or try not to get lost.

    Cost wise, it all adds up.

    MD Roadbook, 400 euros
    ICO/TNS, 250-300 euros x 2
    Remote control, 200 euros
    Roadbook brackets, 200 euros
    GPS, 300 euros
    CAP repeaters etc.

    Now mount all of this to the most vulnerable place and hope for the best!


    Tripy, 600 euros.

    Mmmm... It does close the GAP pricewise... Why not bring 2 Tripy's vs 1 Roadbook set up? Put one in the back pack and off you go!!