Real world KTM 350 EXC impressions?

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by GravityDT, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. Saltydog86

    Saltydog86 village idiot

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    I copied this from a memebers post @ ktmtalk....hope it explains why you had the issue.

    And, 2stamp, get rid of the WRR and get thsi bike...you will be happy you did!

    "I could not find a fix for the dead battery starting issue in the thread. If I have missed it, sorry.

    I did read all of peoples accounts a while back, and while attending the KTM Adventure Rally in my home town of Bend, Oregon, I had the opportunity to ask the KTM tech a few questions. Kyle (KTM Master Adventure Tech) was familiar with our dead battery plight. He mentioned he had success starting a 350excf with a dead battery with the help of a 9v battery. Yes, a 9v battery. The fuel injection system needs 9 volts to operate, and that is what prevents our FI bikes from starting. Kyle had mentioned he had come up with a design for a 9 volt/capaciter fix for the bike, and had shopped it to a few companies with no success.

    Kyle said that if you carried a 9V battery with some connection jumpers, you could start the bike with it. He said to idle the bike for at least 10 minutes without reving the throttle. If you rev it or turn on any accessories, it will most likely stall out.
    I am willing to bet there is enough room under the seat for a 9v battery and some wires.

    I have not tried this, but it sounds sane to me"
  2. mmm0042

    mmm0042 Adventurer

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    Interesting... I may have to disconnect the battery and see if this will work. I assume that when they say "you could start the bike with it" then mean kick start it. I have a hard time believing the electric start would work via 9v battery.

    I'll post up the results, but currently my bike is at a friends, so it will be a few days.

    More thoughts, info, and comments welcome!
  3. mmm0042

    mmm0042 Adventurer

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    Yes, the headlight was on. Only low/high switch, no off, but it is sounding more like an FI issue.

    If the 9v trick doesn't work (see previous posts), I may try disconnecting the lights and giving it a second try.

    Thanks!
  4. Gryphon12

    Gryphon12 Long timer

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    I'm finding that this discussion is being repeated on a lot of threads across the ADVRider spectrum, from dirt bikes to street tourers. Manufacturers are implementing new technology faster than we are educating ourselves on how that technolgoy works, how we need to properly use it, and the consequences of new failure modes.

    FI bikes have ECU's that require not only current but a consistent voltage for the ECU. This is why you can't just "jump it and go" with a depleted battery. The stator may provide enough power for the fuel pump, but without the minimum charge on the battry (or capacitor), the resulting voltage fluctuactions trip the ECU to failure mode and it shuts off to protect itself. To avoid these failure modes, either a battery or a capacitor will do, but the battery has to be in good condition (e.g. not recently totally discharged) and a properly sized capacitor needs to be fully charged.

    With all accessories off (e.g. headlight), 9V is the minimum, but 12V is better, with the capacitor or battery providing the "depth" to produce a stable (non-fluctuating) current for the ECU. (This means that the kick-starter also needs some "depth" or "buffer" from an electrical reservoir to provide stable current to start the bike.)

    One of the best discussions I've seen to date regarding the electrical requirements in somewhere in the middle of the WR250 Megathread. Bigger batteries and stronger alternators help avoid similar situations in modern automobiles, but the weight penalties for motorcycles result in compromises in the electrical system designs.

    The aftermarket won't pick-up on the emergency starter concept due to the liability of "hurting" the ECU.

    Spend some time reading other threads and see what has already been done before messing around with your bike. Google is your friend.

    Lithium-Ion batteries are lighter than lead-acid batteries, but they seem to have less stable current properties when stressed. Also, voltage in lead-acid batteries drops off slowly with inadequate charging; Li-Ion drops like a step function. Lots of folks are using Li-Ion to save weight; some few have had problems. Others are carrying small Li-ion battery packs as backups for their lead-acid primary batteries when riding the far reaches of beyond. Still others are wiring-in capacitors to augment their factory electrical systems.

    The bottom line - protect your bike's battery. With FI bikes, get in the habit of turning them off with the key ALL the time (assuming your bike has one). If you have to use the Kill Switch, get in the habit then turning off the key. Most of us don't use this procedure enough to make it a habit, but with FI / ECU sophistication come new REQUIREMENTS that need new riding habits.
  5. mmm0042

    mmm0042 Adventurer

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    Thank you for the post, it was very informative.

    Quoting a few sections, I will definitely do more searching on the topic before doing anything.

    I've already had discussions and thoughts on carrying a spare, good to know others are doing this.

    As for the habit, I need to figure this one out... I always use the key, except when I am on an incline and want to shut it off in gear, because I am using the hand brake to hold it in place (which is what I did last weekend). Perhaps I will force myself to use the foot brake when needing to turn off on an incline and just discontinue use of the kill switch except in emergency situations.

    Thanks again!
  6. wizz

    wizz Up a creek......

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    killed my battery but was able to kick start no problem. didnt find it harder to kick than my xr650r once i got past the first kick. maybe there was just enough juice in the battery. anyone with technical info on wiring in capacitor or what not would be awesome.
  7. calltrex

    calltrex Adventurer

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    The capacitor is on the 350 sx so it can't be that hard to figure out

    I would pay for a working kit if someone made one to work
  8. Saltydog86

    Saltydog86 village idiot

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    [​IMG]
  9. calltrex

    calltrex Adventurer

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    Would rather avoid carrying more junk




    2012 KTM 350 EXC-F
  10. ekms377

    ekms377 The 2-Stroke Guy

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    What are some of the OTD prices of the 350 EXC-F??
  11. wizz

    wizz Up a creek......

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    2013 for 98 i believe. thats somewhere around 9+fees.
  12. BanhXeo

    BanhXeo Been here awhile

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    I payed 1021700 pennies for mine. It is worth every one. :thumb
  13. vladg

    vladg Adventurer

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    Where to connect it in case battery died?
  14. Crawdaddy

    Crawdaddy Navigate 2 Adventure

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    Parting out my tired WRR......struck a deal on a 2012 350 XCW last week......picking it up this week..... I'll add a ~$40 brake light switch and "presto" street legal in AZ. :lol3

    DV - What 5 watt LED did you buy to replace the stock headlight? Link please :D
  15. ADVTuga

    ADVTuga Paulo Lança

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  16. calltrex

    calltrex Adventurer

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    Which one is that? I like that one
  17. ADVTuga

    ADVTuga Paulo Lança

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  18. Nice_Rumble

    Nice_Rumble Long timer

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  19. calltrex

    calltrex Adventurer

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    what windshield did u use?
  20. ADVTuga

    ADVTuga Paulo Lança

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    You can use any type off windshield , or acrilic , policarbonate , etc .

    This one , was from a ktm 950 adventure . ( touring )