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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by ParaMud, Dec 11, 2012.
what car have you got?
I'm not going to split hairs with you. 70/30, 65/35,75/25, whatever...The front brake supplies the most stopping power in most any situation and without using any rear brake expect your stopping distance to be longer. Is that better?
But to avoid using the rear brake for fear of locking the rear wheel is just as dumb a reason as avoiding using the front brake for fear of going over the handlebars...
As we slow down it doesn't make a s#*t what you do. Remember, the OP was talking about freeway speeds, not residential road speeds.
Thanks for giving me credit for that "one" thing I got right.
This is the point that everyone else seems to have missed. If your bike will do a "stoppie," as most bikes will, then you can get 100% of your braking power out of your front tire. It's just a matter of learning where that threshold is and being able to stay just under it reliably.
Until your girlfriend becomes an expert at stoppies though, she should be advised to practice emergency stops using both brakes.
And while you're at it, teach her how to downshift while braking. It could save her life.
I'm really not following your logic that she shouldn't be learning how to use that rear brake in "NEED TO STOP NOW" situations because she may be panicking and over do it.
How do you think she's going to develop the conditioned response (uh oh, I just used a psychological term) required to not lock up that brake in an emergency situation? She has to practice using the rear brake in a firm, progressive manner.
I know other people have said this, but I figured it needed to be repeated one more time for good measure.
In emergency situations you want to stack the cards as heavily in your favor as you can.
Because when you really need it, it needs to be automatic.
It's very pleasing to execute a quick stop for a deer or somesuch, and look back on the event a few minutes later and realize you didn't even think about the brakes, you just did it.
My advice is to stop trying to "Teach" your girlfriend or anyone else you know how to ride a motorcycle. She should seek professional instruction as your advice is totally WRONG, INACCURATE and DANGEROUS to instill in a new rider's head. Please refrain from offering your teachings to any other motorcyclists.
There is no such thing as a fixed front/rear ratio so in that sense 70/30 is bullshit. But they also put a rear disc on performance bikes for a reason. Until you are actually doing a stoppie, there is still rear braking power left. In normal street riding, people are not doing stoppies.
Personally I believe in approprite use of both brakes. My wife has a tendency to not use the rear brake and I have encouraged her to routinely use it. We ride a lot of dirt roads and contaminated hard surfaces and I don't want her to needlessly wash out the front trying to squeeze it harder to get the bike to stop in time, when she still has back brake capacity left unused.
The way to learn to not lock up the rear is to use the rear enough to get familiar with its characterisitcs, not to not touch it out of fear it will lock up. That's just as bad as the Hardly Dimwitson riders who supposedly are afraid to touch the front brake for fear they'll go over the bars.
I'm with the OP. The only time I use the rear brake is in dirt, and even then I try to use the front more. The front brake is your friend even off-road.
On the street I'll sometimes use the rear brake on slippery surfaces, but not much. In fact, If I used my rear brake on my old KTM 950 with any pressure, it would boil the brake fluid and be pretty much useless until it was serviced.
Take Daytona coming down from a buck seventy off the tri-oval and into the slow speed T1. You think anybody uses the rear brake?
How about Loudon in the rain into turn 3? Think anybody uses the rear brake?
I think the front brake is the one everybody needs practice with. The rear brake is a crutch.
Hmm, why's that there...
they must not use it. Those guys don't know how to ride anyway.
Not much. That's why they are so tiny...
The rear brake is a useful tool, and does help you stop faster if you know how to use it. Therefore, you should learn how to use it. Your advice to her is poor. She should take a course or two, to get good instruction (probably wouldn't hurt you to do it, either). The advanced MSF course includes practice with the rear brake, including controlling your bike if you do lock it up.
I got exactly this far in the thread, and read what I needed to see. Bold = Gold.
It's a useful tool, but not for the reasons you lecture on. You're talking out your ass about things you are unfamiliar with. Who are you to lecture to anybody?
Anytime somebody posts "if you know how to use it" it means he is bullshitting. If he can't explain better than that, he doesn't know what he's doing or why.
Damn Pantah, you seem a bit porky tonight! I use both brakes almost always, because as someone else said "It seems to stabalize the braking experience considerably. (except in parking lots and at very low speeds) And I want/need maximum braking when I want/need it. What part of this don't you all get? Luckily, I don't want/need max. braking often (perhaps due to the way I ride) however, when I want/need it.......I want/need it!
There are rear brakes for a reason. Anyone who doesn't use/know how to use them is adding risk to their ride. My mantra has always been "If you need max. braking, you're probably doing something wrong....or your road skills need improving". Granted, I now ride city asphalt most of the time (other than a 200+ mile highway trip to Sedona AZ a couple days ago) and I find that accurately predicting cagers actions, riding defensively, saves a lot of brake pads.
I practiced (max. braking techniques less than two weeks ago, on a lonely stretch of two lane. Had the front tire whining and the rear damn near locked up, but not quite.) How many of you have done that recently? Not a put down, just askin'
Every spring (so far, anyway), I head to a big quiet parking lot and spend a couple of hours doing drills. During the riding season, I practice emergency stops once or twice a week on a quiet stretch of road. I use both front and back brakes on pavement.
I'm confused about why exactly you wouldn't use both brakes. You'd have to be incredibly numb to your bike not to be able to tell when your rear is about to lock. For that matter, it isn't even really a very big deal most of the time when it does on a straight away.
I pretty much always use the rear brake if I don't have to stop in a hurry, and then when I do have to stop in a hurry I use them in concert. Why wouldn't you use all the available breaking power if you want to stop?
As long as a tire is on the ground, it'll help you stop in a shorter distance. We all know that braking transfers weight off the rear and on to the front, so---
---Press hard on the rear pedal, then ease off as the weight transfers off the rear as traction decreases. A moment before stopping, press hard on the rear.
---At the same time, squeeze progressively further on the front brake as weight and traction increases on the front. A moment before stopping, ease off the front.
---Practice, practice, practice. Do this for every stop every day, with the intensity suited to the situation. Your emergency actions will be the same as your every day actions, just more of the same as needed.
Buy a bike with ABS brakes. ABS measures the traction of each coupl'a inches of pavement and gives you something like 98.5% of the maximum traction that pavement can handle.
lots of bad advice here . threshold braking with both brakes should be done every ride. it should be automatic. most bikes are not sport bikes . most bikes are cruisers and standards. also to the op a klr front brake is more than adequate you just need a strong hand.
The tons of motorcycle racers do not use the rear brake during straight up and down braking into the corner.
Their job is to slow down as much as possible in the shortest amount of time and they don't use the rear brake.
As for using the rear tire to brake, YES I do. I downshift! and sometimes I still brake the tire loose which doesnt bug me.