rear sprocket bearing $89.00 !!!! (05 640 Adv)

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by rob748, Apr 25, 2006.

  1. dwayne

    dwayne Silly Adventurer

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    true, but I'd rather not have to reorder a con-rod because they list two engines on one page.

    Most Japanese parts digrams work much better than the KTM ones, and incorrect parts diagrams lead DYIers no end of frustration, and many weird issues such as noted with the carrier bearings. While having a parts diagram is an improvement over not having one, a correct, logically laid out one is even better.
    #61
  2. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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    My question always has been is,,, is the carrier cast different as well?? same thickness etc.. we need to get the two and photo/measure them ..
    #62
  3. Tseta

    Tseta Lost

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    No, the carriers are definitely not the same, as indicated by the part numbers and the different bore sizes for the bearings. Also the casting pattern is quite different looking at places. I will try to take some comparison photos of these during the winter.

    Cheers,

    Tseta
    #63
  4. 650x

    650x Long timer

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    As noted in this thread, there are two schools of thought concerning repacking sealed bearings. Having been an electrician in a sawmill, I have dealt with a lot of motor bearings. From my experience in dealing with large electric motor bearings, over greasing is the leading cause of bearing failure. IMO, when dealing with a high speed application such as a motor, when using sealed bearings, don't add any grease, just install and run them.

    Many years ago I felt packing sealed bearings full of grease for use in a motorcycle wheel was a bad idea and didn't do it. However, I was going through bearings (especially on the rear of my first 520) and found the failure was due to moisture and rust. I was having to install new rear bearings on my old 520 almost every time I replaced the rear tire (2 -3 times a year) Decided to try repacking new sealed bearing fairly full with water resistance (boat trailer) grease. Since then, have been going through a lot less wheel bearings. Still pull them out at least once a year and clean them out and regrease them, but don't have to replace them very often.

    IMO, packing sealed bearings for a motor application is still a bad idea. However, I now believe that motorcycle wheel bearings are a different matter all together. The speed is much slower and rarely constant like a large industrial motor. Don't believe they get hot enough from the speed they see for the extra grease to be a problem. Do believe the boat trailer grease will help keep the moisture and other dirt out and usable grease in where it needs to be.

    It is your bike, so do what you feel is best. For me and my bikes, I now always pull the seals and clean out the stock grease and fill them with water proof grease. Works well for me.

    YMMV
    #64
  5. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    You know I said that too and people told me I was crazy, oh well. It goes for front wheel bearings as well or any bearings on our 640's. I use Red wheel bearing grease.It will take the high temps of disc braking and hold up but remain fluid at low temps, available at Ace hardware. Completely waterproof. Great for the pivot, swing arm and steering head too.
    bill
    #65
  6. bikemoto

    bikemoto Tyre critic

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    I think this is the point of difference. The rated speed on the bearings is 7-15,000rpm, but a motorcycle wheel is only turning ~800rpm at 100km/h. Packing with a moderate amount of grease, say every 5000km service, is my plan.
    #66
  7. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    Wolf, I get your line of thought and I do a 10K miles service interval. I think the idea is that sealed bearings aren't really sealed, they are shielded.
    Water can always get in.
    bill
    #67
  8. Tseta

    Tseta Lost

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    Hello,

    As I promised, here are some pictures of the two different sprocket carriers. These are off of a 2003 KTM 640 Adventure (with the regular sprocket) and a 2007 KTM 640 Adventure (with the orange aluminum/steel sprocket). The part numbers are, as described earlier, 58310050144 SPROCKET SUPPORT CPL. 03 and 58310050344 SPROCKET SUPPORT CPL. 06, respectively. The pictures also show the difference between the 3205 and the two 6005 bearings.

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    Cheers,

    Tseta
    #68
  9. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    Testa,
    That's the best post I have seen in an orange age.
    Thank you,
    bill
    #69
  10. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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    after 2 hubs on my sxc went south, I didnt know one cracked and made my worn pads drag metal to metal so I changed my pads and didnt notice on the deep sierra ride thru the dusy ershim trail the bearing fully failed and made it into a two day ride/rescue... the second at about 50mph on a fire road it spun the sprocket fully off with the threaded hub tabs.. luckily no major damage to me or the bike ,,, that took me to a cush... didnt know the difference and went with the one that came in first ( the 03 earlier) they were both on BO. Noticed the rally bikes used the older one and now Im happy I got the single bearing older style.. it is a little short for the "diamond" 03 and older non boxy swingarm and maybe that explans the width difference.. but when torqued down it works fine and chain lines up , no brake drag... thought about a thick nylon spacer but havent went down that road. I will post a photo of the gap the next time I have my wheel off..




    here is another thread about the bearings...

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297961&page=2


    and I actually posted here.. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=389341


    so now all we need is the bleepin thread status on this one... Meat pop???

    also im so glad the bearing/carrier question has finally been answered!!!!
    #70
  11. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    huh? whaa? :tb

    (what is the price difference between the two setups?)
    #71
  12. Tseta

    Tseta Lost

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    <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=5 width=500 bgColor=#000000><TBODY><FORM onsubmit="return _CF_checkCFForm_1(this)" method=post name=CFForm_1 action=changequants.cfm><TR><TD bgColor=#ffff99>[SIZE=-1]58310050144[/SIZE]</TD><TD bgColor=#ffff99>[SIZE=-1]SPROCKET SUPPORT CPL. 03[/SIZE]</TD><TD bgColor=#ffff99 align=right>[SIZE=-1]$117.96 [/SIZE]</TD><TD bgColor=#ffff99><INPUT value=1 size=3 name=Quantity11453> </TD><TD bgColor=#ffff99 align=right>[SIZE=-1]$117.96 [/SIZE]</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#ffff99>[SIZE=-1]58310050344[/SIZE]</TD><TD bgColor=#ffff99>[SIZE=-1]SPROCKET SUPPORT CPL. 06[/SIZE]</TD><TD bgColor=#ffff99 align=right>[SIZE=-1]$116.22 [/SIZE]</TD><TD bgColor=#ffff99><INPUT value=1 size=3 name=Quantity11455> </TD><TD bgColor=#ffff99 align=right>[SIZE=-1]$116.22[/SIZE]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    </FORM>From elitektm.com fiche

    These setups include the bearings and the bushings already installed on the carrier. The price difference is quite negligible. However, one must also consider that the '03 comes with the "expensive" bearing and the '06 with two "regular" bearings. The difference will be felt if/when replacing said bearings.

    Cheers,

    Tseta
    #72
  13. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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    #73
  14. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    So the issue here is the later model LC4s come with two cheap bearings that fail earlier/more often and cause you to either buy lots of replacement bearings from KTM (w/markup... ) or if you read this thread you might replace the whole shebang with the older setup that has the good expensive bearing - that lasts longer.

    My mind is slipping - how much longer does the good expensive bearing last on average? :ear
    #74
  15. Tseta

    Tseta Lost

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    First, the bearings for both setups are commonly available from industrial bearing suppliers. No need to pay the KTM prices.

    Second, I don't claim to know for sure which bearing setup is better. I also don't have any facts on the longevity of either setup. I said earlier that the newer setup needed changing at 15tkm, while the older setup has now lasted for 30tkm with no signs of wear. However, in both of these cases, the bikes are pre-owned with no real knowledge of past service history. I really don't want to convey a notion that either setup would be superior to the other, or that based on my ramblings someone would actually switch from the newer setup.

    In (adventure) motorcycle use, dirt and water contamination of the bearings plays a significant role in bearing wear. Perhaps the bearing service life in this case is more a function of the external operating conditions than the actual imposed load.

    It seems that KTM also used similar angular contact bearings earlier on the rear sprocket carrier of the LC8 models, but changed to a double ball bearing setup around the same time as on the LC4 models.

    Last, the only issue, in my opinion, that exists with this rear sprocket carrier is the discrepancy in the fiches. If the new setup was somehow significantly inferior in performance, one would think that we would be hearing much more about it.

    Cheers,

    Tseta
    #75
  16. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    Tseta,
    I agree, lots of factors influence wear. We have to add running the chain too tight. That's hell on everything including wheels.
    bill
    #76
  17. bikemoto

    bikemoto Tyre critic

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    Maybe so, but from my bearing supplier the double-row angular contact bearing is still 5 times the price of a normal deep-groove ball bearing.

    Given the issue with contamination, I would venture to suggest there is no marked difference in life or performance, merely price. The accountants have finally won! :lol3
    #77
  18. Ohffs

    Ohffs Adventurer

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    So what's the cheap alternative (off the shelf) bearing that will fit? I don't mind keeping an eye on it or even replacing fairly regularly. This is mine

    [​IMG]

    Also my Cush drive rubbers look worn. Is there a pattern part replacement or is it a ktm visit?
    #78
  19. Tseta

    Tseta Lost

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    Ohffs: You seem to have the "older" cush drive setup and as such, are going to be looking for a 3205-B-2RSR double row angular contact bearing. The nomenclature may be a bit different with each bearing manufacturer, but the important part obviously is to get a bearing in the correct size (25x52x20.6) and design (double-row, angular contact, sealed from both sides).

    The cush drive damping rubbers (#54610459000), at least to my knowledge, are only available through KTM.

    Cheers,

    Tseta
    #79
  20. Ohffs

    Ohffs Adventurer

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    Thanks for the reply. Are the Cush rubbers different from each sprocket carrier types different?
    #80