rear wheel not spinning freely

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by nitrox32, Dec 31, 2012.

  1. jdub

    jdub Dawg bytes reel gud

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    I'd better not let my GSA read this, it's 80k miles overdue for a failure. I just love reading BS posts like this. :lol3
    #21
  2. ultane

    ultane sqeezin the bag

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    You never dissapoint.


    I might be wrong... Just ask my X...

    If a man speaks, and there is no woman present to hear him,... Is he still wrong?


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    #22
  3. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    Maybe on your buddy's bike, but there are thousands of 50K mile plus GSAs with a fullky functioning driveshaft.

    Jim :brow
    #23
  4. mwood7800

    mwood7800 Banned

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    Might be but I would not buy one. Or ride one any distance. Without pulling the driveshaft for a look.
    #24
  5. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    I have had 2 R1200s that went well past your arbitrary limit with no issues, and a third that now has 120K miles, still original driveshaft.

    Also, I personally have worked on dozens of R1200 bikes well in excess of 35K miles with no driveshaft issues.

    Believe what you like, but a sample of one is not a good indicator of an issue.

    Jim :brow
    #25
  6. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Long timer

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    True, but there have also been plenty which have grenaded at roughly the 50K mile point. I've pretty much talked myself out of an R1200GS because of it.

    It's simply the latest in a long list of professional embarrassments for the BMW engineering community.

    Don't get me wrong. I understand your point. It's the dichotomy of BMW ownership. You either get a good one or a bad one. A good one will go hundreds of thousands of miles with little or no trouble. A bad one will cost you multi-thousands of dollars in major repairs every 30,000-50,000 miles. They guys with bad ones can't believe people pay actual money for these pieces of crap. The guys with good ones can't understand what all the fuss is about.
    #26
  7. kimokk

    kimokk Been here awhile

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    So how much does it cost to replace the chain and sprockets every 2-3000 miles? :ear
    #27
  8. ragtoplvr

    ragtoplvr Long timer

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    I do not consider that an appropriate reply. Obviously there are some issues with quality control on the front U joint. It may not be the U joint. It could be installation or machine of the yoke for example, this is just a guess.

    This is consistent with BMW for the last 20 years.

    Rod
    #28
  9. Anorak

    Anorak Woolf Barnato

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    2-3000 miles? You need to buy brand name parts. Part of the issue is unexpected failure leaving you stranded. It's really easy to check the condition of a chain and the sprockets before you leave on a trip and address any issues. It's not too difficult to remove the drive shaft and inspect it so maybe that should be part of preparation for any ride where you don't want the adventure to include a layover waiting for parts.
    #29
  10. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Long timer

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    It costs me about $150 every 20,000 miles. And I can schedule it so I know it's good. And I can choose from a vast array of sprockets to change my drive ratio if I desire. And it's light. And I don't lose any appreciable horsepower through the drive system. And, and, and ...

    In theory there are advantages to a shaft drive. That being said, any effort to favorably compare the BMW shaft drive system to a standard chain drive system is, well, laughable. Sorry.

    And I'm not even a BMW hater. I love Beemers. I have almost 300K miles on BMWs. Stuff like this drives me nuts though. It's really turned me of the brand.
    #30
  11. eric2

    eric2 ®egister this:

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    If you aren't a BMW hater than why haven't you mentioned the fact that a failed chain can destroy the engine?


    Guess that part slipped your mind. I haven't heard of a failed u joint breaking an engine case. Have you?

    While I'm at it, if a failed ujoint is a a safety issue then why isn't a failed chain? Seems like either one failing at the wrong time could be troublesome.

    Oh, and i got 108k out of my driveshaft. I'll take that anyday over a nasty chain drive.

    Since experts like mr Moore haven't been helpful except to beat their chest, here's a quick way to check your
    ujoint.

    Put the bike in neutral on the centerstand.
    rotate the wheel, if you hear a clunk or feel play you have bad ujoint. and your driveshaft needs to be rebuilt

    You can get it rebuilt for around $300, google Bruno's machine shop in canada.

    When you get it back it will have grease access points, If you regularly grease it it will last the life of the bike.

    I haven't heard of any chains lasting the life of the bike.
    #31
  12. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Long timer

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    See? A living example of the dichotomy, right there.

    E2, I hope it keeps working for you. I really do. If every driveshaft lasted 108K miles we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

    As a note, I pulled the driveshaft on my 02 GS at 100K miles and sent it off to be refurbished (not by Bruno, by Machine Services Industry in Wisconsin). Both ends blew apart within 20K miles.

    That sounds like a good plan. Sorta like I suggested in post #6.
    #32
  13. Anorak

    Anorak Woolf Barnato

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    How many broken chains have you seen? If any, how many went through the engine case. If any, what condition were the chain and sprockets before the chain broke.

    A failed u-joint can render the swing arm unserviceable.

    I remember, now, the F800 had a recall due to failing chains.
    #33
  14. def

    def Ginger th wonder dog

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    Mr. Moore,

    Are you saying that the newly refurbished shaft failed after installation? If so, can you be more specific? Why, how did it fail? Was it the fault of the repairs?
    #34
  15. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Long timer

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    Yeah, sure. As my 02 GS approached 100K miles I decided to do a little refurbing. Brake lines, fuel lines, pivot bearings, etc. I decided to pull the driveshaft and send it out aslo. The back end was pretty notchy when I pulled it. The front end felt fine.

    I sent off to Machine Service Industry in Green Bay, WI. They sent if back a week or so later. The whole thing looked new. The u-joints rotated like butter. I was pretty pleased, thinking I had maybe dodged a bullet.

    A few months later (5K miles or so) I felt a weird little vibration when I was riding, for just a few seconds. I didn't really think about it, but that night I happened to be in the garage, so I bent down and turned the rear wheel. I heard / felt the immistakeable "clunk-clunk, clunk-clunk" of a bad u-joint. I pulled the swingarm off and found the front u-joint nearly sheared all the way through. It was obviously about to give way. I replaced it with an old front half. About 10K miles after that I was accleerating from a stop light and I heard / felt a loud "CRACK," then a sound like a ball bearing rolling around in a coffee can, except a LOT louder. The bike was still under power, so I limped it home a few miles. I pulled the FD and the u-joint literally fell apart in my hands. It somehow held together enough for me to get home, but it collapsed into pieces as soon as the pressure was released. It looked like someone had thrown a grenade into the tunnel. There were pieces everywhere. The inside of the swingarm was trashed. It was a mess.

    My guess is that the refurb company took too much metal away during the process. Maybe the installation of the grease fitting left the shell of the u-joint too weak to tolerate the stresses of use. I don't know.

    People seem to have good luck with Bruno. I would definitely try him instead of the other guys if you plan to go that route.
    #35
  16. def

    def Ginger th wonder dog

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    My 2001 GS has a separate, removable rear u-joint that joined by splines to the rear of the driveshaft and FD pinion shaft. During assembly, the pair of u-joints must be phased correctly to eliminate rotational acceleration and deceleration speeds from the u-joints and resulting flexing of the driveshaft.

    Here is the excerpt from my REProm regarding phasing...not very well explained:

    Caution:

    The universal joints for universal shaft and rear
    wheel drive must be installed in the same position.


    I am not familiar with the 2002 driveshaft design. Does the shaft/u-joint require phasing or are the splines keyed so that phasing takes place with assembly?

    If not, did the shaft get installed with proper phasing when you installed the refurbished shaft?

    You don't perhaps have some photos of the failed refurbished shaft do you?
    #36
  17. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Long timer

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    It was phased correctly. I think the 2001 and 2002 are exactly teh same.

    I don't have any pics.
    #37
  18. seaswood

    seaswood seaswood

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    Next door in F800GS forum there was a couple very long threads on chains that broke destroying rear ends some within warranty some not. Some at speed on the highway. I did not have an issue with the chain on my 800 but you have to oil the bloody thing reguarly.
    The BMW standard drive shaft with u-joints if Bruno can install grease fittings may well be best.
    How long they will last seems to be the unknown, we just do not like not knowing when it will go out.
    :D

    #38
  19. Anorak

    Anorak Woolf Barnato

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    Any other forums with a bunch of threads about broken chains? It was crappy chains sourced by BMW. BMW can screw up a chain.
    #39
  20. OkieTom

    OkieTom Been here awhile

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    I thought that this post was about helping Nitrox32 diagnose his problem ?? I would suggest that you pull the caliper and/or brake pads and see if that changes things. A rotor that is just barely warped will cause the wheel very hard to turn by hand. Please let us know what you find.....
    #40