rear wheel whoa's

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by ktmnate, Jan 17, 2006.

  1. ktmnate

    ktmnate Long timer

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    Ok folks. I read several reports (Ned, Inte...) on removing the rear tire and felt I could do it without any problems. Now, I have been doing tires for some time on the 640 without any issues. I have also done several "Tubless tires" without issue. On the 950 it was an outright bitch! I had a bead breaker. The kind that stradles the tire and you tighten a 20mm nut and it pinches the tire breaking the bead. That didn't work so I used the side stand trick. After several attempts one side finally broke loose. I had the full weight of the bike on the side stand and it still wouldn't break. I had to bounce on the bike as the side stand was balanced on the tire. The other side was much, much harder. I tried the bead breaker and the side stand at the same time without luck. I even had the wife put the SUV in 4-low and back over it 3 times. Still no luck. I got mad and decided it can be dealt with later!


    Next morning around 4am I went back out to the garage. I used the bead breaker and put a piece of plywood on the side that the bead already broke. It then took me 3 tries to break the other bead. I have changed tires on trucks and this was harder!


    While I had it apart I ground the rim down so the bead will hopefully slide off when I need it next.

    I guess some break easy and some are an outright bitch.


    Nate


    ps -I am uploading pix now and should be able to post tonight.
    #1
  2. ktmnate

    ktmnate Long timer

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    Here is the bead breaker and the side stand:

    you can see that the side stand is not on the ground.


    [​IMG]


    Here is the drive by:
    [​IMG]

    I guess if it was a truck with a stiff sidewall it might have worked. Scott Hardin told me it work for him in Mexico with a bus.
    #2
  3. rider914

    rider914 Agnostic Adventurer

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    What tire? What wheel width?

    I'm at the point now where I can change both front and rear tires in little over an hour (at home, in the garage, with air compressor). My 05.5 has the wide rear wheel. I have changed stock pirellis (150/70), TKCs (140/80), and Bajas (140/80) on the rear and all take about the same effort. It is actually easier than the narrow wheel on my XR because of the extra finger space and no rim-lock.

    For the rear tire, I put the bike on the centerstand with the sidestand down. I use a 2x4 to support half the wheel and keep the disc/hub off the ground. Lean the bike slightly to the right and kick the tire under the sidestand. You want the foot of the sidestand to just miss the rim. Now lean the bike to the left. (This is a good time to have a helper around the first time you try it.) You may need to place one foot (left) on the outside of the rim to keep it from flipping up, and then use the other foot (right) to help break the bead. Push the bead down with your feet all the way around, then flip the rim and repeat for the other side.

    Better luck next time.

    - M
    #3
  4. rider914

    rider914 Agnostic Adventurer

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    Just saw your pics.

    First one looks like my setup, except I have not needed the bead breaker. Also, the plywood under the bike would force you to lean the bike farther.

    Dumb question, is the tube fully deflated with the valve core removed? Even one atmosphere in the tube could be enough to resist your efforts.

    - M
    #4
  5. Pantah

    Pantah PJ Fan from Boston

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    I can't break my bead either. I didn't try the sidestand trick, but many others (with portable bead breakers). I expect now to have a shop break it, and maybe apply a layer of axle grease to the rim when I inflate it and try breaking it then. Either that, or I have to grind off the safety bead holder too. No way can I fix a flat alone on the road as it is now. -p
    #5
  6. ktmnate

    ktmnate Long timer

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    Yea, the valve stem was out. even though the plywood was under the bike, I had the bike completly off the center stand. All the weight was on the side stand and some on the front wheel.

    I think it might have been the Karoo 150/70-18. That sidewall is prety darn stiff.


    When I inflated the tire, I had to go to 95psi to seat the bead. I have never had to go that high. The new Scorpion went on real easy. It was just breaking that bead.


    Nate
    #6
  7. LKN4DRT

    LKN4DRT Mended

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    The first time I changed a 950 rear it was a pain in the ass. Not sure what I would have done out on the trail with a flat. I then got this paddle shaped tool called the bead popper. It works great with a couple of blows from a heavy hammer. Then I banged up the rims and put Suns on that don't have bead lock. It also helps to lube the bead with some simple green.
    #7
  8. luv2lean

    luv2lean not lost til out of gas

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    Hey Nate,
    Those tires are a bugger to get past the rim bead. Another problem I had was getting the front axle out to change the front tire. I dont think I could have done it on the trail. It may not have been properly lubed when first assembled. Hopefully the lube will make it easier next time.

    The last time I changed my rear tire I ground about 6 inches of bead on both sides of the rim opposite the stem for a breaking point. I'm just about done with that tire. I'll let you know how it comes off. How much of the bead did you grind off?

    chris
    #8
  9. wameith

    wameith MotoLooser

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    Nate,

    This may not be exactly the help you're looking for...but...I have a tire changing setup, and I'm just east of you a bit. I haven't done any nine-fiddy wheels, but I've done lots of dirt/street wheels. It doesn't help you much on the trail, but at least we could get them off so you could rework 'em. Lemme know. :D

    Wade
    #9
  10. 950TRANSALP

    950TRANSALP Been here awhile

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    I've changed car , bicycle , Transalp tires for the last four years and even with the air powered tire changer the rear Pirelli on the stock Behr rim is a bitch ! A Continental TC is much easier but I still built Excel rims for off road use for strength and ease of maint.. :wink: K.B.
    #10
  11. PvtIdaho

    PvtIdaho Deck Spotter

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    Did you use any lube when you were trying to break and/or reseat the bead?

    Also, were you working your way around the wheel? Mine (rear tire) takes about 2 full rotations when working the side stand into the tire every 90 degrees. A quick swab with soapy water between the bead and rim after the first complete pass has made the whole ordeal much easier for me.
    #11
  12. Donkey Hotey

    Donkey Hotey De Jo Momma

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    Hey Nate, the trick I used changing a trailer flat was a scissor jack. I put the tire under the car, put the scissor jack on top of it (with the long foot running along the bead) and cranked away. It would unseat the bead pretty quickly. The long foot of the scissor jack (Dodge Caravan variety) did a good job of breaking the bead rather than just pinching the tire carcass. A newspaper on the ground should cushion the rim and protect from scratches. That'll get it loose for you. Doesn't work so good on the trail though.
    #12
  13. kamanya

    kamanya Andrew to most

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    I like this idea.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    I can't remember who in this site has it. He did refer to it but the picture comes off of the guys smugmug gallery.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    You'd have to do a search to find it.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Anyway the way it works is that you remove the axle bolt. Then secure the helmet wire by the t-handle on the one side of the axle (in the photo this is on the brake disc side) and run through the axle out the other side and then back though the sprocket to a hook on the end of the tool (under his left hand). You then use the tool as a lever with foot of it against the bead.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Apparently there is more than enough leverage to unseat even the toughest bead.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    I like the idea as you break the bead with wheel still on the bike. It would prevent getting dirt in the cushions or bending/damaging the brake disc when using conventional on the ground/side stand methods. It also reduces/eliminates the possibility of dropping the bike while trying the side stand method.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    I have changed the tires - TKC80's and Scorpions, using the conventional side stand method. The post above about working around the wheel was the method I used. They don't just slide off though and swearing/sweating to progress ratio is pretty big.<o:p></o:p>

    Cheers

    Attached Files:

    #13
  14. rightsideup

    rightsideup Get your motor running...

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    I know it's no use out on the road but http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/beadbreaker.html
    works every time for me at home. Rather than bother with using a car I've got a short length of 2x4 fixed to the garage wall to lever against.
    #14
  15. BLUE(UK)

    BLUE(UK) Long timer

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    Good idea RIGHTSIDEUP......but i would use the long length of 4x2 sideways so it has more strength!!:wink:
    Never broke my bead but when i go travelling this summer i wanna know what the hell i am up against!!:huh
    #15
  16. rightsideup

    rightsideup Get your motor running...

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    That's exactly what I do - it works really well.
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  17. Stephen

    Stephen Long timer

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    Got a drywall screw in the rear tire last week. Finally got out to the bike around 2100, dark and cold, big adjusty spanner outta the truck to get the nut off... jeez, I haven't messed with this in year! Sidestand trick does nothing, but then, my driveway is soft loose gravel and I'm already bushed. No worries, then, off to the dealer tomorrow, with the spare Scorp I bought last year. Good as new, but I'm not feeling too good about the long solo trips now.
    #17
  18. ktmMike

    ktmMike Long timer

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    I have an ORANGE beadbreaker that I bought from JCWhitney catalog, probably designed for car wheels, but it works great on the Adventures and every other motorcycle wheel I ever tried. I've used it for years, sorry I don"t remember the price but it was pretty inexpensive and worth every penny.
    Its VERY FAST and easy.

    On long road trips I used to carry two regular hardware store C clamps (six or eight inch whichever opens wide enough for your tires). They work just fine on every wheel I ever tried (just not as slick as my ORANGE JCWhitney beadbreaker). You may need to protect rim with rag if you care about the C clamp leaving scratches. Mike
    #18
  19. YOGOI

    YOGOI Prick

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    Here is the link to the post I did on it.http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95445 and here is his E-mail again: dale@cooperoil.com
    I have used it on the TKC, and Scorpions. w/ a little WD it pushes the bead past that bead stop with out all the swear words. It has been a while since he made these, so I hope he still has some, or can mace more. I have been able to get by w/out with the TKC, and Scorpions, but I have been running the Desert now, and it has such a massive and stiff side wall that Im going to start carrying this tool with me. Its the only thing I know of (besides removing the bead stop) that will give you a fighting chance with the Desert out on the trail.
    #19
  20. ktmnate

    ktmnate Long timer

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    I had problems with the front axel also. Lube didn't help. I ground off about 8" of the bead on the wheel. I'm hoping that if I get a flat on the trail that I can use the side stand to fix it. Let me know if you want to use my bead breaker. I'm going to get the one that Joe Barker had. It looks like it worked good.


    Nate
    #20