Redline 80W Gear Oil with ShockProof® in a GS?

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by Bearsfatha, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. vintagerider

    vintagerider Long timer

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    Windsailor, excellent points. Getrag knew darn well that gear lube was going to mingle with the yak grease in their "clean" bearings. They designed the gearbox to work in unison with a specific fluid. Not too slippery, with a certain body. At a BMOA lecture it was that BMW felt riders would not change the fluid often enough to clear the high quantity of particles shed by their gear boxes so they gave us "clean bearings". Originally the covers were billed as " new design with micro-filtration" Figure that one out.

    If you look at bearing failures on the 1150, miscibility with certain syns is still somewhat of a concern. Unproven fluid may help the gears only if the bearings survive.

    Redline is quality stuff and decently priced. Not top of line but very good. But is it right for the M94, M97 or 11xx six speed? I tried their Shockproof HD- couldn't get shed of it quick enough. Shifting was horrible.

    Amsoil was o.k., CRC Syn-Go OEM was silky smooth but its hard to justify at $45/qt and long term bearing compatibility is still unknown. Most 11xx riders want best value not over-shooting point of diminishing return.

    Getting back to what you said about the old Getrag interview, conventional multi-grades, just how much have they changed? If 75w90 conventional was not recommended for M97 at the time then how comfortable can one be with it today, or even with 80w90?

    Yes, it does seem that there ought to be a modern fluid that serves the "ideal" above but which one is that? How much is reasonable to pay for himmlischen Flüssigkeit?

    The new fluids are an essential component of modern lighter drive lines. But the benefits do not automatically extend to older equipment. For classic vehicle owners obsolete fluids have long been a problem . Most of us prefer Riding over training for lubrication engineer. But hopefully this discussion will rescue few M97's from an untimely death (including op's).

    A word on gear oil lab analysis: Visual is better. I've sent out samples with visible metal flake yet they came back "clean". If we could get reliable analysis then we could test the effectiveness of the the syns. Another way to shorten the list is to look at the base stocks and additive package for Mo 1 75w90, a known endgültige Lösung für Motorrad-Getriebe Frage.
    #21
  2. vintagerider

    vintagerider Long timer

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    A new warranty on vintage bikes! Sign me up!
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  3. Bearsfatha

    Bearsfatha Pirate on a GS!

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    OK so getting educated on my 1100GS transmission and which oil to use is like getting a drink of water from a fire hydrant. But I am startting to get an idea. So Vintagerider are you using straight conventional oil 90w? Or an 80w90? Or a 75-90 syth oil out there that meets the specs (I like the way they run cooler)? Where I live it's like summer riding most of the year. Also not sound wanting to sound like an idiot but what does "moly" do and if it gives the "shockproof" qualities that safe to add? The Heavy Shockproof relieved the "clunk"" of my Harley shifting and originally that is what I was thinking when wanting to use it in my GS.


    I love my "new" 1100GS with all it quirks and noises, so I do appreciate all of what you guys are telling me here. I've always tryed to live by the KISS (keep it simple stupid) method with all my bike maintance: regular service intervals (usually about half of what the manufacturer recommends), good quality fluids, I do my own wrenching, and ride a lot. I'm not a fan of Dealer oils. So... (not trying to blow up this thread) I suppose I'm open to recommendations?
    #23
  4. Wallowa

    Wallowa Long timer

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    While I have read dire consequences of using RL [well actually the same one over and over]...I have a few questions and what my limited experience has been riding dirt only on my '07 GSA. "Ancient Rider" , I can say that at my age, seems to have more 'from the horse's mouth', although most of time I think BMW speaks from the other end, info which is greatly appreciated rather than our WAGs.
    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    #1 Do the transmissions vary greatly from model to model [e.g.: 1100,1150, 1200]? Primarily in the context of lube requirements.
    <o:p></o:p>
    #2 Is there any actual documentation of lube ever damaging a trans or FD for that matter? Looking for a direct cause and effect link. If yes, what was the response of the lube manufacturer when confronted with this evidence?
    <o:p></o:p>
    My limited experience...I use 220 ml, original BMW recommendation for my bike, of RL Heavy SP in FD and the same lube in trans. Oh, RL 20-50MC in motor. No problems to date. All is smooth, in spite of a lot of slow speed high motor heat....I do not ride pavement so no prolonged 70MPH++ runs, well I might touch 70 on dirt but only until my common sense returns.:D <?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape style="WIDTH: 11.25pt; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; VISIBILITY: visible; mso-wrap-style: square" id=Picture_x0020_1 alt="0" type="#_x0000_t75" o:spid="_x0000_i1026"><v:imagedata o:title="0" src="file:///C:\Users\Phillip\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\02\clip_image001.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape>Honestly my experience means zero...since nobody knows what exactly is occurring on the friction surfaces of my bike...never will. My riding style goal it to be smooth and no slamming anything.
    <o:p></o:p>
    Oil threads are always subjective. In my perfect world I would love to see objective data. Is there any specifically for the FDs and trans on BMWs? Oh well, world is not perfect!<v:shape style="WIDTH: 11.25pt; HEIGHT: 11.25pt; VISIBILITY: visible; mso-wrap-style: square" id=Picture_x0020_2 alt="0" type="#_x0000_t75" o:spid="_x0000_i1025"> <v:imagedata o:title="0" src="file:///C:\Users\Phillip\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\02\clip_image002.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape>:wink:

    Thanks.<o:p></o:p>
    #24
  5. vintagerider

    vintagerider Long timer

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    Bearsfatha, Your 1100 gear box thread deserves to be in the 1100 forum. Confused? wait 'till the wasser boxer is out.

    The full 1996 Getrag/MO interview (translation by Kari Prager) is on Anton's site as well as on Micapeak.
    http://micapeak.com/bmw-gs/trans.html

    Are you Inupiaq and planing on using your 1100GS in the whale hunt? If not then 75w90 syn ought to be entirely off the table. If you are still considering any syn for some odd reason then only consider those with 145 in the number. You know the risks, but just as heath officials have learned photos are the best persuaders. Might want to search for some of the co-agged 1100 bearings.

    If your manual said "75w90", which it doesn't, then synthetic equivalent would be 75w145. If you have money to burn then try CRC SL2495 Syn-Go OEM. Make several flushes with $3/qt bulk 90 wt from the truck stop first. Who knows, you might just find that perfectly adequate.

    Running with the big boys:
    Zef runs flax oil fortified with hen's teeth fillings in his 1150. Works for him. My auntie is still working off her supply of canned ATF (bet you didn't know that fluids used to come in cans for 19 cents/quart). Has all she'll ever knead for her leaking Rambler American. Mary, who is quite contrary, once read something about needing paraffin in her engine oil. Wish that we could get her to stop cramming those tiny colorful candles in her cylinders every winter solstice.

    Buy fluid from your BMW store to get your 1100 warranty re-instated. :rofl

    Expect your 1100 questions to be answered by all sorts of folks around here. Check the responder's profile to see what they are riding. 1150's are very similar but not the same as 1100's. Good thing to keep in mind always.
    #25
  6. Bill-66

    Bill-66 Hencho in Kansas

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    My bad..thought the OP was on a 1200..

    sincere apologies and beers and bacon sammiches all around..:freaky
    #26
  7. Wallowa

    Wallowa Long timer

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    So what if it is a 1100, 1150 or 1200? Not being a wise ass, but does it make any documented difference in the lube selection?

    Possibly my previous questions were answered elsewhere....but all this "maybe yes or maybe no" doesn't lead to a definitive choice in selecting not only the 'best' [if that exists] but a choice that some say could ruin your machine [if that exists]. Can anyone shed light on my questions below. I am not trying to sharp shoot anyone, just want solid documented information/answers to help with lube selection. I am beginning to think there isn't any.

    #1 Do the transmissions vary greatly from model to model [e.g.: 1100,1150, 1200]? Primarily in the context of lube requirements.

    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    #2 Is there any actual documentation of lube ever damaging a trans or FD for that matter? Looking for a direct cause and effect link. If yes, what was the response of the lube manufacturer when confronted with this evidence?

    Thanks folks.
    #27
  8. Bill-66

    Bill-66 Hencho in Kansas

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    I think there have been several updates and iterations between the 1100 to 1200..I've read elsewhere of some known problems with the older trannys that I don't BELIEVE to exist in the 1200..however I may be completely wrong..

    That said..I would not presume to tell someone what weights were spec'd in the older bikes..as I have no personalexperience with them..I know Def runs 75W-90 with added Moly in his 2001.

    As to lube caused damage..I'd hardly think so..there has been a hiccup i that a sealed bearing, loses the seal adn the grease inside mixes with and is washed out by the gear oil..if this causes bearing failure, I am not aware..a sealed bearing inside a tranny is sorta stoopid..not sure how it could be ruined though..just lubed differently.
    #28
  9. vintagerider

    vintagerider Long timer

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  10. Wallowa

    Wallowa Long timer

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    Thanks do appreciate the insights. Lots of gaps in mine!:wink:
    #30
  11. Bearsfatha

    Bearsfatha Pirate on a GS!

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    Interesting interview and I get your point. I'm gettin' me some candle wax!
    #31
  12. MUDHWY

    MUDHWY Undersprung & Overdamped

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    RL SP actually exceeds API GL-5 specifications but my concern is that the manufacturer specifically states: "Not recommended for most synchro applications due to the product's extreme slipperiness."

    WTF? Aren't most new transmissions nowadays synchro mesh? :huh
    #32
  13. Trailrider200

    Trailrider200 Been here awhile

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    its red cause they put a dye in it, just like royal purple does for their purple stuff.
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  14. JetSpeed

    JetSpeed Naviator

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    Oh I love an oil thread, especially a resurrected old oil thread.
    I'm not sure why people agonize about the gear oil they use in their GS's.
    Specs call for a GL5 fluid, some like 75-90 other prefer a heavier weight.
    The BMW transmission in these bikes is not under any heavy loading at all, it is a super light duty application and truth be told the gearbox would probably live just fine with a cheap 30W motor oil inside, the difference in using various brands and weights of gear oils will likely only effect the shift quality and noise.

    With that said, I don't see anywhere that states Redline V-Twin Transmission Oil with ShockProof is GL5 rated.
    It is also my understanding that BMW claims that the camhead and new liquid cooled GS have synchromesh transmissions, I'm curious if this is accurate.
    Many people get the term "synchronized" transmission confused with "synchromesh".
    #34
  15. Anorak

    Anorak Woolf Barnato

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    The is no reason to use synchromesh in a motorcycle so, BMW probably does. The only "motorcycle" I can think of that does is the Amazonas because it uses a VW transaxle. Synchro transmission shift slower and don't shift well at high RPM. A dog box doesn't do well with slow shifts.
    #35
  16. JetSpeed

    JetSpeed Naviator

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    There is no arguing with that logic.
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  17. MUDHWY

    MUDHWY Undersprung & Overdamped

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    Precisely why I would consider using it. I really appreciated how it quieted down my HD and provided for a smoother shifting feel. Apples and oranges from a BMW but that's the anecdotal evidence I'm hoping to obtain from any who have tried it in a modern boxer.

    Redline's own webpage said specifically that "it meets or exceeds the GL5 rating." That page has since been edited since I first read that and that statement is now removed...curious. :huh :

    http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=44&pcid=8
    #37
  18. JetSpeed

    JetSpeed Naviator

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  19. little foot

    little foot Super Mediator

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    no sense in trying to save 5-10 bucks in any vehicle, use the manufactures recommendation for all of your vehicles. They don't invest in R & D for nothing and you weekend shade tree mechanics are not smarter than a major companies engineering department. I know you want to be though.
    #39
  20. MUDHWY

    MUDHWY Undersprung & Overdamped

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    Right but I clearly posted I was looking into the heavy shockproof. Thought this was a close enough thread to not start a new one.
    #40