Reprogramming the BMS-K?

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by LukasM, May 5, 2011.

  1. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    Hey guys,

    From what I have been able to find out the hardware in the BMS-K is the same on all K72 models, and if you order a replacement it will come unprogammed.

    Now the question is, can the map be changed after it has been used for a while? I have a F650GS map on there now, but would like to change to the F800GS one (along with the engine :evil). I was hoping that this is possible, since in North America you can also change from the high octane to the low octane map...

    Cheers,
    Lukas
    #1
  2. Bayner

    Bayner Long timer

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    Don't know, but it's a good question!
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  3. pkbinder

    pkbinder Kissing Moose

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    Lukas,
    Hey I think you have a great idea. I would love to convert my 71hp 798cc engine into an 85hp engine. I may want to wait a few more months until my warranty expires. Besides the mapping, wouldn't we also have to change the cams? Paul
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  4. JoelWisman

    JoelWisman Long timer

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    In theory...... Maybe.

    What are u trying to do?
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  5. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    Hi Paul,

    Yeah the cams are different also, about $575 for both online. Other than that the engines are the same.
    #5
  6. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    Hi Joel,

    If it was directed at me, I want to put a F800GS engine into a F650 bike, and update the mapping to match the cams and get more power.
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  7. huckleberry

    huckleberry BACK ROAD BOMBER

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    lucas, you should ride more and wrench less!:lol3
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  8. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    I don't know if you would HAVE to add it, but the 800-800 has that secondary air system built into the top of the valve cover. I would guess you could add the extra parts as I think the valve cover casting is the same P/N as the one used on the 650-800
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  9. pkbinder

    pkbinder Kissing Moose

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    I would think converting the 798 to 85hp would be a very popular thing to do if all you have to do is spend $575 for new cams and re-map. Since installing new cams is WAY beyond my skill-set, can anyone tell me how difficult and/or time consuming the job would be? Do you know if anyone has actually tried it?
    #9
  10. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    So last week I was talking with the head tech and the service manager at my local dealer.

    According to them, this change is not possible. They connect the bike to the diagnostics computer, which reads the VIN, and with that downloads the latest software from the official BMW servers. They do not have any input on selecting which map it should install.

    Joel or anybody else with inside info, does that sound right?
    #10
  11. Gangplank

    Gangplank Advenchaintourer

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    So in theory all you would need to do is buy a ECU BMS-K from a crashed bike that is being parted out. It would read the vin from the F800 ECU and work fine.
    #11
  12. JoelWisman

    JoelWisman Long timer

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    No.

    The BMS-K, or rather DME as BMW now calls them, does not read any vins. The "Motorrad Online Service System" reads the bikes VIN from several computers on the bike, then downloads the correct software and installs it.

    The only influence we have that I know of, is we can manually tell the MOSS that a computer has been replaced.

    What I am curious about is....... If someone were to key into the MOSS that all computers had been replaced, would it then ask for a vin to be keyed in, and download the build of the keyed in bike?

    I have no idea, but maybe.
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  13. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    Joel:

    As crafty as those German engineers are, my bet is that if you told it all the computers had been replaced it would query the system and conclude you were a liar ... either becuase several units all reported the same VIN which would not happen with "factory fresh" units, or, I would think that the replacement units would be set to some defaulted VIN/ID code which the MOSS would go looking for if you told it computer(s) had been replaced...
    And then it would call you a liar ... :lol3

    But ... I agree with you 200% ... it would be fun to try!

    I wonder what the GS911 guys know about this... if anything?

    PS: THANKS for the PM!
    #13
  14. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    Joel,

    Besides the issue with the "Motorrad Online Service System", do you have any idea if I would get the bike to fire and run if I just swap in a BMS-K/DME from a F800GS with a different VIN? Does it need to match the key or is that only the central computer of the bike?

    Just want to make sure that I don't screw up the de-mobilizer or something like that permanently....

    [​IMG]
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  15. Motorfiets

    Motorfiets Long timer

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    Doesn't Max BMW have some way of reprogramming those things?
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  16. JoelWisman

    JoelWisman Long timer

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    Yes, it will fire on a similar DME, even from most different models. It will post a mileage code, and if the DME mileage is higher, will post that to the display.
    #16
  17. Reaver

    Reaver How Did I Get Here?

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    I know this is an older thread and people have moved on, but I want to record my findings with my recent rebuilds in case someone wants to try to convert a 650 to an 800.

    First off, the heads ARE different. Besides cams, the 650 head is not machined for the SLS passages but inmates have disabled that system without harm. The 650 wiring harness is the same as the 800 so the SLS connector is there but not enabled in a 650 programming. May throw a code if you install an 800 ECU but you could simply plug in a solenoid if it affected the operation.

    The BMS-K is the "Master" which has the electronic identity of the bike. If you replace it, you also need the key that is coded to it and hopefully the IGN switch in order to start the bike. Then match all locks or deal with 2 keys. So you could put an 800 ECU on a 650 as long as you have the key. I have yet to try this theory. If you buy an ECU from a wrecked bike you can assume it's identity and MOSS won't care or say "already in use".

    On the 800GS ABS retrofit I did, I ADDED an ABS computer and the bike didn't care, no fault codes using GS911. The red ABS light wouldn't flash on the instrument panel tho. I then replaced the ZFE with one that read "ABS Equipped". That made no difference and no codes either. I then installed a Kombi instrument cluster from an 800 with ABS programming and everything worked like a factory install. Except the mileage was wrong. :cry The Kombi will display whatever is on it, whether higher or lower than the correct. I verified that.. On 2007 and earlier Kombi's you can delete the incorrect mileage code and carry on with whatever it has on it. On the newer units, it will continue to flash so you have to put it on "Trip 1" or just ignore it. You can't reprogram the original gauges for ABS because that VIN never came with it. Not allowed. I don't know if you could just reset the mileage on the ABS programmed set without re-reprogramming it which would delete ABS and get you nowhere. So I rode the bike with no ABS warning light and correct mileage. I tested the ABS each ride to be sure. So the point is, all the computers EXCEPT the BMS-K were changed on the bike with no effect on the running part. I don't see why you can't change the BMS-K (with the key) and maintain your old computers.

    If you are changing just your Kombi gauges, you will need a set from the same model (650 for 650 etc) if you have ABS. My 800 GS or ST gauges on my 650 disable the ABS due to an "incorrect variant" code. Everything works normally except the ABS and TPMS because there was no programming for the TPMS. So I'm riding the 650 without ABS, TPMS and the mileage flashes constantly. Whatever. I can't find a correct 650 set and am currently waiting for my Dealer appt with no guarantees on the reprogramming.

    If you smoke your ABS computer while welding or something (seems to happen a lot!) you will need a replacement from the SAME MODEL. I.E. a 650 for a 650, an 800GS for an 800GS and an 800ST,S or R from the same. I know for a fact you can't put an 800ST ABS unit on an 800GS and have it work. The units are stamped for EXACTLY what they're for. My retrofit unit was stamped K72 800 which is code for F800GS. A 650 (K72 650) has one disc and an 800 has two so the GS's can't be swapped amongst themselves. The 700 with an 800? Who knows.

    I'll update the info should I get around to installing my 800R engine into the 650GS. :eek1
    #17
  18. belinassu

    belinassu n00b

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    i installed F800R camshafts on my f650gs and reprogrammed BMSK ecu

    engine revs better and with much power.
    only bmsk reprogramming gave me +5HP maximum and +8HP at max torque rev
    with different cams engine perform better in high rev, but weaker in low rev
    650 original cams are the best for low revs...
    #18
  19. Reaver

    Reaver How Did I Get Here?

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    Excellent. That's what Erling was going to do before leaving us on a 1200.

    Can you give us more details on the programming please? Who did it and what program? F800GS BMSK on a 650?

    The results are much like a road bike then.
    #19
  20. Kiwi Tinkerer

    Kiwi Tinkerer Ross

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    I think the throttle bodies on the 650/700 are smaller than the 800
    #20