"Ride Away" price...

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by CaptnJim, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. Mucka

    Mucka Been here awhile

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    I had an RV dealer try some of the things mentioned. Wife and I looked at a C class. Got a price from dealer. It was used. Price was $41,000. Told them were going to look at another RV at a different dealer. This was said up front. Went to different dealer and didn’t like that RV. I called the 1st dealer back and said we would like to buy their unit. We agreed on $38,000 otd. When we came back the dealer then informed us the price would be $41,000 otd. I asked about the phone call we had and the agreed upon price of $38,000. Sales guy said he never agreed to that price. They had the sales contract already printed. We headed for the door. Sales guy just said get the hell out. Called the owner and told him the story. He said he would call me back after speaking with sales guy. He called back and offered us the unit for $39,000. I asked him if he understood that I wanted it for the agreed price. He finally said that they would take a loss and give it to me for $38,000. I told him that I would never buy anything from him ever. About a year later they were out of business.

    We used to have a bike dealership near us. When Honda had their $200 Red bonus days you could use that money on gear or reduce the price of the bike. I was buying an XR70 for my son. Dealer did not have one. Said he could not order a new one at that price because the model year changed. He then called other local dealers and found one for me. He sent me over to them. I think that was beyond service. I ended up buying many bikes, parts and service from them. It was a sad day when the owner retired and sold the dealership. It was bought by the type of people that I hate dealing with. No prices on bikes. Ask how much something was they wanted you to fill out a form with name, address email etc. Then you would get calls and emails asking if you were ready to buy.

    I miss being able to walk into dealership a call the GM by name. Walk over to parts and see same faces all the time. Most places you have to help the parts guys because they don’t know much.
    #61
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  2. cdwise

    cdwise Long timer

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    FWIW, I was looking at AF1's site for someone else and they have a new 2017 white GTS https://www.af1racingaustin.com/vespa-inventory/2016-vespa-gts-300-abs-dragon-red-xae4z

    sale
    2017 Vespa GTS 300 Super (White)
    now $6,127.00 List 6,899.00
    2017 Vespa GTS 300 Super (White)

    NO DEALER FEES!!
    No freight, no prep charges!!!


    So there you go, a hard to beat advertised price. They'll ship anywhere nation wide for $650 if someone wants it and can't pick it up.

    Don't know what they'd give you for the PCX but they gave me a fair price on the scoot 2007 Scarabeo which had issued caused by the previous owner's "improvements" when I bought the NOS 2009 from them.
    #62
  3. cdwise

    cdwise Long timer

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    When we bought the used Sebring convertible we had a few years back we decided on a red one that my husband really liked. They were all supposed to be the same price since they had come off a 1 year lease. When he showed me the contract I said hey, that's not the posted price since only a few had actual prices on them. I saw that that model was X amount. He said I must have confused it with the lower priced model. So we walked over to the silver one that had the lower price and yes, it was the same model. Salesman had to call the manager who came over where we were standing and looked daggers at the price painted in 18" high numbers on the windshield. He then turned to me and said "okay, you can have that one and just that one at the price it shows." So we ended up with a silver one instead of red. We knew damned well that the minute we walked off that lot the car was going to be washed. He'd already called for the "boy" who dealt with painting the prices and washing the cars muttering something about termination.
    #63
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  4. Richarde1605

    Richarde1605 Been here awhile

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    I hope the 'boy' didn't get terminated, plenty of more senior employees that should noticed...

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    #64
  5. Jim T

    Jim T Been here awhile

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    Not only is that a pretty good deal, but they're upfront about the price with no freight and prep charges. I notice that the 2018's on their website don't say "no freight, no prep charges". No problem.........they're upfront about it.

    Along the same lines. This one looks rather nice: https://www.af1racingaustin.com/vespa-inventory/2017-vespa-gtv300 :yum

    Jim

    PS: After my great experience with my (new to me) PCX I think my Triumph is starting to feel some pressure!
    #65
  6. cdwise

    cdwise Long timer

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    GTS or GTV make a great touring the backroads scoot so a good way to get it home.
    #66
  7. CaptnJim

    CaptnJim Scootist

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    I did the "Get A Quote" thing with another dealer today. On their website, they had this particular scoot listed at $3999. The salesman wrote back that the price on it is... $6k. When I wrote back to point out the listed price, the salesman gave me the "I didn't know the owner posted that - he must really want to blow it out." Interesting way to start a discussion. And by "interesting," I mean: what a moron.

    :asshat Ya know what's giving dealers a bad name? Yeah, it's dealers. :dhorse
    #67
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  8. JerryH

    JerryH internal combustion rider

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    It's nice to see the change in feelings on this issue. I remember a time when some people said that you should pay a dealer whatever they wanted without question. Something about "supporting the dealer" IMO, a dealer who tries to rip you off does not deserve your support. Of course a dealer has a right to make a profit. But with some dealers it's like highway robbery. And if a dealer posts a price on something, then they should sell it for that price. Sometimes dealers do take an upfront loss to avoid a larger loss later on. It costs them money to let a vehicle just sit there, taking up space they need and depreciating at the same time. And I still think that all fees that do not go to the government be included in the posted price of the vehicle. They post fake prices to get you in, and then start adding things on. Apparently it does work, as they have been doing it forever. A certain P.T. Barnum quote comes to mind.
    #68
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  9. CaptnJim

    CaptnJim Scootist

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    Jerry, I have been wary of some dealers in the past. You and I both know that there is at least one good one in Scottsdale. I agree that a dealer should sell at an advertised price, and anything above that is deceptive advertising. After another exchange with the salesman in my previous post, seems they DID "make a mistake" on that advertised price... they upped it $2k on their website. Then, he proceeded to tell me what the NADA price is on that scoot... which is WAY over the actual... I guess this particular dealer assumes people can't read or access NADA info themselves. This is now 3 dealers that have proven themselves to be unscrupulous. I still won't lump ALL dealers into that... but, it is 3 for 3 with my recent experience.
    #69
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  10. 87112

    87112 Been here awhile

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    Went to the dealer today, there is a used 14 B200 still on the lot. I remember it from 4/17 because last spring I was shopping for a B200. IMO, the scoot is kind of behind in its dash material, dash design and overall feel compared to the competition out. Its feels OLD. I would not pay over 1,999 for a used one of any mileage. Its almost obscene that its msrp is 4,999 when the Xmax msrp is 5,599.
    #70
  11. Wentwest

    Wentwest How's that work?

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    THERE ARE FORTY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD AND FIVE OF THEM ARE HAMBURGERS.

    -Don Van Vliet

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  12. Wentwest

    Wentwest How's that work?

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    My last post was just a test to see if a quote attributed to a poorly understood philosopher would sound important. The answer seems to be "probably not."

    In many countries you hassle back and forth with sellers about everything from one banana to a hotel room. In the US there's not much bargaining except in motor vehicle dealerships. So we generally hate bargaining. The way I see it is sort of similar to Capt'n Jim (go in with a number and stick to it), except I do believe in being somewhat of a jerk myself when buying a car so I offer even less than I'm willing to pay and let them insult me, and smile a little. Let them sing and dance for a while. You know they're hungry. Think of it as a show put on for your entertainment. Do you really care if people you don't trust at all think you're an idiot?

    You can always take a long shower when you get home.
    #72
  13. CaptnJim

    CaptnJim Scootist

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    We used to travel a lot in Mexico - we understand bargaining. What I take issue with is the blatant lying with the ridiculous "fees," often trumped up after you have made the deal. $395 for a "document fee"... you mean for doing the paperwork to complete the sale?? Imagine the outrage if you went to the grocery store, the bill came to $50 and then you were told it would be $75. "Well, there is the $15 fee for ringing up your groceries and the $10 fee for bagging them." When a dealer tells me that shipping was $650 (when the manufacturer's site says it is half of that, and that is allowing for extra profit for the dealer) and the cost to set up the scooter is $500 (how slow is that mechanic??), I can't believe anything they say after that. It becomes less about "the deal" and more about the trust: I really don't want to do business with someone I don't trust.

    This reminds me of the motto of an independent motorcycle shop I used to use that worked on Harleys: "We cheat the other guy and pass the savings on to you!" :jack I just don't want to be "the other guy."
    #73
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  14. BMWBUD

    BMWBUD Cancer SUX, Life is Good

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    I totally agree with you Jim. It's pretty easy when you catch them lying to you.

    I can not reward a dishonest dealer with my business.
    #74
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  15. kantuckid

    kantuckid Long timer

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    I cannot type well enough to tell all my "stealer stories"! Back when I was a golf caddy, in Topeka, KS, I often caddied for a number of new car dealership owners, all of which cheated each other in golf and several of who ended up in prison too. Go figure?
    One guy in my graduating class inherited one of those dealerships. He later went in with another guy we both went to school with and who had become very successful in a couple of BBQ places-Wichita & Topeka. The BBQ guy needed money to expand. That same stealership guy managed to cheat my friend out of his 3 BBQ places, even after it went to court he beat him out of the whole business and unfairly too. Sad but true.
    Near to me in KY a few stealers were playing the ODO game and went to prison. A vo-tech teacher I worked with was involved in the hands on aspect but never got implicated and he told me he saw no problem with it as "everybody did it". Go figure?
    They don't consider these sales tactics to be lies.
    One of my favorite (not at the time!) deals was when I went to Paul Miller Ford (still there) in Lexington, KY hoping to trade a 1976 Toyo Corolla SW to a 1982 Subaru SW. They appraised my car and we began to negotiate which went on for a couple of hours. At a point after some back and forth with the salesman playing good guy, manager the bad guy. That's an actual trained sales model they used-I was on jury duty later with a guy who worked there and he told me he left over their tactics as poor human relations model for him.
    So, I said this is what I'll pay, not a penny more. The kid came back and said the deal wasn't going to float, I got up to leave and there were two managers physically blocking the exit door. I mean really! I was a quite a bit more of a man than these days and not someone to be messed with like the wimpy old man I am now:lol2 -but I was no hothead then or now.
    Flat out, I told them I did want their car and highly suggested they either sell the damned thing or get out of the way.
    I wonder in todays' salesmanship models if they still use similar training programs as from years ago? It has always varied from place to place and as management changes it changes again & again. If there's a musical chairs profession it's car dealership folks.
    My four new Tundras all came from a different place givens this reality of sales changes, timing, etc.. Even on straight up deals.
    I like this way to buy: decide what you want and determine an invoice price point then through some inevitable legwork (the nasty lot lizard part!)
    I determine the price points that a dealers will sell that vehicle for some where logical for me. That point varies by make and model, location , so on. My sons (all very busy) when in the market have me play the web until we get there then they take over for POP with the final deals.
    Some dealers want to move vehicles faster than others or at varying speeds and unfortunately they have the final word to some extent. :lol2
    I never disrespect a lot lizard until they begin to game me-then it's walk away or "fight" time. Sales are one of those aspects of life where for eons the gregarious people tend to win out...to some extent.
    #75
  16. CaptnJim

    CaptnJim Scootist

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    I'm not proud of this, but back in the early 70s, I sold cars for a Pontiac/Datsun dealership. I lasted less than 4 months. During that time, I learned about "sales techniques" and how the final price I negotiated affected my paycheck. As a customer, the salesman isn't "on my side;" neither is the manager. It is the buyer vs the sales force. If I made someone a decent deal, I got my ass chewed by the sales manager. We were given a minimum price on each vehicle - anything over that price, as the salesman, I would get 1/3. I would make money on accessories and financing. I hated the job. The only job I had in my life that turned out to be nothing like what I though it would be.

    That "I'll have to ask the manager" bit - unless the salesman is a complete dipshit, he doesn't have to ask the manager if the price offered is OK... it just takes the pressure off the saleman: "I did the best I could for you - this is the price they will accept." Bullshit.

    Next time a salesman says he has to go ask his manager, tell him, "I'll go with you - that way we can all three talk about it." See how that goes over. :D

    I trained in each part of the dealership - my sales training on the used car lot started with watching the sales manager... he didn't say anything to the customer about being the sales manager, but got an offer out of the customer. He said, "I'll have to take this to the manager, but I don't think he's going to go for it." He told me to come with him. We walked from the used car lot to the shop; he lit up a cigarette, took a few puffs, put it out, then tore the sales contract in half. We went back to the customer and he said, "I did my best for you, but he didn't go for it - it will take another $300 to make this happen." It happened.

    That's why I go into any vehicle purchase with a firm number. I'll offer less than that if it comes down to me making the offer. That's why I get pissed when they make me an offer that is obviously over-inflated. I take that as a personal insult. "So, you do think I'm stupid, huh?" Now, if they come down, it is apparent that they want to "play games." Time to walk.
    #76
  17. Knuckle Buster

    Knuckle Buster Been here awhile

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    I just went with my son to buy a new bike. I drove to Nashville to meet up with him and then after eating we went to Murfreesboro TN to the bike store. He picked one out ( a new Ninja 400 ) and I talked to the salesman myself. A bike with a sticker of 4900.00 was going to cost him 6400.00 out the door in cash ( not financed ). I made the dude break it all down to a science then walked back out to talk to my son, and gave him the exact breakdown the guy had given me. Then told him what I thought he could get it for. He went back in, haggled with the sales guy and settled on a deal. He rode out of there on the new Ninja 400 for 5200.00 after sales tax and all was said and done. This was this past Friday 13'th.
    #77
  18. BMWBUD

    BMWBUD Cancer SUX, Life is Good

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    Your son got an education.

    My MIL bought her last car when she was 74. Didn't tell anyone, called me to take her to the dealer to pick it up. The salesman was a relative of hers. It was already, signed, sealed and paid for. I wanted to punch someone.

    There was a $1000 rebate. She paid list minus the rebate and told me she got a "good deal" because the salesman was related.

    I bit my tongue at that point and moved on.

    Stealership for sure.
    #78
  19. Tromper

    Tromper Been here awhile

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    #79
  20. Richarde1605

    Richarde1605 Been here awhile

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    Thankfully, I can walk away from the bad smell of dodgy ships.
    We had one in Sydney Australia in the 80's that had a microphone in the room when they went to talk to the manager...
    They listened to see how much you and the SO liked the car, and how much you were prepared to pay. He went to gaol!!!

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    #80