Riding a bike is as dangerous as fighting a war

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by chasssmash, Jun 26, 2013.

  1. Foot dragger

    Foot dragger singletracker

    Dec 27, 2006
    chico,just below rag dump(nor-cal)
    Yeah it seems to go that way,riders with many,many years of riding under their belt and have made it to their 30's/40's/50's and still ride all the time are WAY under represented in crash statistics.
    No way to buy experience,but keeping an open mind and trying to learn can help. Some just buy a bike and figure it will work out,there's more to it then that.
  2. LuciferMutt

    LuciferMutt Rides slow bike slow

    Aug 19, 2008
    New(er) Mexico
    I hate statistics. If you have a crash, your chances of having a crash were 100 percent. If you didn't, who the fuck cares what they were?

    Ride sober, ride within your limits and the limits of your machine, and don't ride like a fucking knob on public streets and you are ahead of the game. I take it further by not riding at night, and avoiding the interstates during rush hour.
  3. KX50002

    KX50002 NooB, my ass

    Mar 18, 2012
    I justread a study where they proved statsticly... if you don't own a gun you are 100% less likely to be shot with your own gun.

    Life is fatal, I'd rather die on my bike than slip away in a hospital after a long bout with some f'in disease.
    Not that I'm any hurry to die mind you, I just fear not living more than dying.
  4. Martin_404

    Martin_404 Adventurer

    Apr 27, 2013
    As an ex-combatant in the war on Christmas, I am not 100% convinced the numbers are correct, but they are probably very close.
  5. glasswave

    glasswave Been here awhile

    Feb 4, 2007
    Wasatch Mtns, UT
    It is interesting to see how many people want to ignore objective data so they can compartmentalize their own little worlds. It makes one wonder what other areas of science they are prepared to dismiss in order to convince themselves that they are making the best decisions. One must also wonder about their feelings regarding history, considering they only want to go off their own anecdotal experiences.

    Still others, will rationalize, "I am not part of that statistical group (all motorbikers) because, I don't...[ride at night, drink and ride etc]." And why don't they engage in those behaviors? Because they know the statistics. :lol3

    For me, statistical data is like any other objective information. It's nothing to be afraid of or hate or dismiss. I am happy to have it, because it allows me to assess the risks and act in ways to eliminate or minimize them. I am not saying that I don't combine this with my own experience and knowledge, just that I don't want to deny the data is relevant to me.

    Why would people want to put their fingers in their ears and scream lalalalalala, when they could look at the data and use it to manage their risks. Yes, stats can be manipulated by someone to convince you of a false premise, but that's only if you don't understand statistics.

    The irony behind that statement is delicious, thanks. :rofl

    BTW, Lucifer, statistics show that you'd be better off avoiding multi-lane surface streets during rush hour, rather than interstates.
  6. monkeythumpa

    monkeythumpa When I go slow, I go fast

    Oct 21, 2008
    Oakland, CA
  7. RTLover

    RTLover Long timer

    Nov 1, 2009
    West-central France
    I don't follow your logic on most of what you say. Take the example of swimming pools. A pool is not a 'danger', it's how it's used that can render it so. Two kids nearly drowned? Where were the adults who should have been watching them? It's axiomatic that if you don't have a gun in the house, it can't kill you. If you do have one, someone else could come in and shoot you with it but if you keep it locked and/or out of reach of children, negligible risk. About your convertible, well, a truck passing you could kick up a stone and bean you with it or the gas tank could leak and turn you into a torch. You ride to work in snow and ice? Now THAT is a risk. Park that bad boy and take the cage.
  8. Rango

    Rango Phaneropter

    Oct 30, 2012
    Kingdom of Belgium

    This isn't science, not even a hint of it.
    Tabloid material. Dump it.:flush

    So, given the choice the author prefers riding point in Kabul to riding the murderous countrylanes?:rofl

    Perhaps the author doesn't know the merchant of Tehran. A merchant of Tehran went to the market and to his horror he saw :grim
    :grim returned the look, looking amazed. The merchant lost no time. He ran home, saddled his fastest horse and rode like the devil.
    All the way to Isfahan, faster than a pony express rider ever did.
    At sunset he arrived at the market square in the center. Someone tapped his shoulder. It was :grim
    "But I saw you this morning in Tehran", the merchant shouted.
    "Indeed you did," said :grim "and most surprised I was as I was told to pick you up today in Isfahan."

    Ride me boys, ride...:ricky
    and be :happay
  9. GoUglyEarly

    GoUglyEarly Boots Still Clean

    May 16, 2012
    Newt Jersey

    Shhh, don't tell anyone, especially the safety police!

    They are all going to live until they are 100. They aren't taking risks and don't like to be reminded that risks are being taken by others, because that means the boogeyman must be real.

    Organic fed free-range meat carcasses at your local supermarket! Safety rated Toyotas with 270 hp low emissions engines on your superhighways! Large sodas! 8 billion opinions all striving to teach the others how to live better!

    Quick, hand over your freedoms so we can finally all be safe!

    Progress! Safety! Unity! A brighter tomorrow!

    All brought to you by the advanced consciousness of hairless Primates and their clinically clean behavioral traits! No, really, they are just trying to help you live your life better, safer!


    Silly humans. You're all going to die. Better on a motorcycle than on the toilet, I say.
  10. chasssmash

    chasssmash Banned

    Jun 30, 2012
    I have studied statistics and have a pretty good idea how they work as opposed to several round here.Obviously there are all sorts of caveats around anything.

    But I will give you an example of what I'm talking about. Like I said before two children almost drowned in my pool and the reason they almost drowned was not my fault it was their parents lack of vigilance. It takes less than a second for a child to slip beneath the water completely soundlessly. The pool can be full and you wouldn't even notice the child drowning. That is why pools are so dangerous. Statistics confirm this.

    This is similar to motorcycling. There are so many risks that cannot be controlled. Drivers who are drunk or on the phone for example. A moments lapse in concentration. A mechanical malfunction. A deer jumping in your way.

    I have a friend who thought that he was perfectly safe on a motorcycle. Last year I saw him have a head-on collision with a car. He wasn't drunk it was just a lapse in concentration
  11. Apxgrndr

    Apxgrndr In the snow

    Jun 29, 2006
    Up here
    This is why I feel safer when I ride periodically as opposed to commuting, when I get too familiar with the bike my concentration wanders and that scares me.
  12. MunK

    MunK Adventurer

    Sep 6, 2006

    Small world... I was flying one of those damaged helicopters at LS719. It's nothing like riding a motorcycle.

  13. ObiJohn

    ObiJohn Screaming Banshee

    Jul 22, 2010
    Seattle suburbia
    The risk is there. We can manage it, or mitigate it, whether we're discussing the risks of motorcycling or guns.

    Managing risk means taking steps to reduce the chances of the risk/unwanted event occurring, mitigating risk means taking steps to reduce the negative impacts if the risk/unwanted event occurs.

    Getting rid of your guns does not reduce the chances of getting shot with a gun if you and other household residents are otherwise sane and sober, and your guns are secured. You have increased your chances of getting shot by an armed intruder by some amount, depending on the nighttime burglary/home invasion rate in your area. Not having ready access to a gun can actually increase your chances of getting shot.

    Similarly, not owning or riding a motorcycle eliminates the chances of injury or death from motorcycle riding... but what are the odds of crashing if some day you as an untrained or out of practice rider gets on a bike again?

    I wouldn't ride a motorcycle if I didn't take active risk management and mitigation steps, like getting training, not riding impaired, riding within the limits of my skills and the environment, and wearing high quality protective gear. I wouldn't own guns and keep them in my home without appropriate risk management and mitigation strategies. We can choose to be at the correct side of the bell curve, and all the way to that side.

    I'm curious about the pool story. It seems obvious that, if two children almost drowned in your pool, your risk management and mitigation strategies are deficient. Are you going to get rid of your pool, or are you going to implement more effective strategies? If the answer is the latter, then what makes your pool different from your guns, in terms of accessing the risk and dealing with it?
  14. chasssmash

    chasssmash Banned

    Jun 30, 2012
    Actually this is directly applicable to the original post.

    In the first case a three year old was in a floatie about a foot away from her mum.The mum was distracted for a minute and the floatie arbitrarily snapped and the kid slipped to the bottom.In the second case a 6 year old jumped in the pool a foot away from his dad and went straight down.

    I am super paranoid about pool safety and on both occasions I noticed and the kid didn't drown but it was close. Basically in one case it was a mechanical issue and in the second case it was parental stupidity in not insuring his kid was wearing a vest. The issue is that a little screw up has such dire result. Really the same as motorcycling. A small error can cause death easily.There aren't many things you can say that about.

    I still ride daily and will continue to do so but don't want to kid myself on the dangers involved.

    In terms of the pool I bought a high quality fence to replace the crappy one and bought a very safe pool cover (same as good bike gear ) It mitigated some risk but wouldn't have prevented either incident.
  15. Foot dragger

    Foot dragger singletracker

    Dec 27, 2006
    chico,just below rag dump(nor-cal)
    Your a bit of Troll arent you? Riders CAN control risks by not behaving in the manner of the riders most likely to be wiped out by a car.
    Its a fact not a superstition that Motorbikes have always attracted thrill seekers and non conformists,some of them are 100% Darwin candidates and they show up in statistics.

    For instance I rode to Alasaka and back on a BMW,the only exciting moment on the road was caused by an idiot who talked his way into going along with us. I kept safe distance from cars,didnt ride too fast,just kept moving along.

    But there were MANY chances to put myself in harm's way,I just didnt take them. Those that do,end up in statistics.

    As far as getting randomly wiped out by an oncoming car,that can happen in a convertible or any motor vehicle,the slaughter on the hiways continues despite the many layers of padding and straps put into a modern car.

    Humans are healthier when they have some risk in their lives,there is 0 guarantee that any of us will be here tomorrow,despite what the ins companies sell you all your life long,you or I can be gone in an instant just walking along and WHAM! Your all gone.

    Best enjoy it while you can.
  16. Foot dragger

    Foot dragger singletracker

    Dec 27, 2006
    chico,just below rag dump(nor-cal)
    I was going to point out the pool thing,kids who drown in pools are not being watched by their parents or caretakers,they're kids,they need watching in a pool.

    The gun thing is an old struggle,those who think they're going to jump up at midnight and have an armed shootout with an invader and that will make them safer, have watched too many Gunsmokes in their youth.
    Its an imagined fantasy that very rarely goes well in real life,bullets flying,kids screaming,hiding behind couches firing clipfuls at the enemy...
    The reality is some people leave guns where kids can play with them,or they get depressed and shoot themselves or their family.

    Now its popular to take your gun everywhere you go,get your permit and keep it on you at all times ready for ???????????????
    Its a scared sub culture of society.

    Its not the pool or the gun,its the human element.
  17. Tallbastid

    Tallbastid Brapp

    Apr 5, 2011
    /thread. And thank you for your service.
  18. Goatrider_

    Goatrider_ Intrepid n00b

    May 27, 2013
    Freakville, FL
    It's a great way to generate interest in a book. Pretty simple to convey on a dust jacket and will get people talking about it for sure.

    Along the lines of risk aversion though I read this a while ago that helps put things in perspective.

    http://www.davidmyers.org/Brix?pageID=65 :deal

    You are more likely to kill yourself by eating cheeseburgers than riding a motorcycle. And I do both so I'll race ya! :freaky
  19. furthur

    furthur Adventurer

    May 24, 2013
    So, I live in NH....near Laconia, so I see all types of riders, from weekend warriors to seasoned bikers to serious ADV riders. Most of this has been said i a few ways, but I (think) I have a new point. Bike Week in NH historically (though I think it has been changing) has brought out the group of bikers that drink way too much and often end up in a ditch bruised or dead.....alcohol is te cause. I also see a lot of sport bikers doing crazystupid stuff all the time. But I also see many people that either don't ride enough, or don't have the skill set to ride well. These people either need more time in the saddle, training, or both.

    For me....I've been riding since I was 5 or 6 on minibikes and have owned almost every type of bike out there, I sometimes liken riding to woodworking. I know several carpenters (and I've done it myself) that have lost fingers because they were complacent....what they were doing became too routine. Sometimes I worry about that while riding, that a little fear might be good to keep us on our toes. Finally, and call me a panzy, but I've stopped riding at night for two reasons - large mammals on the road, and too many drunk people that seen to want to hit me, so daytime riding only for me.
  20. svs

    svs Posts too much...

    Apr 5, 2005
    Huntington Beach
    Riding a bike carries risk... We seek to manage the risk as best we can.

    That's what it's about.. Be safe - ride well.