Riding technique

Discussion in 'Australia' started by southern cross, Nov 5, 2012.

  1. TheDoubleD

    TheDoubleD TheDoubleD

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    I find it easier to stand than to sit in the woods; on the street I will sit most of the time:

    • I can see farther ahead
    • If sitting and hitting bumps that will wear you out really quick. Standing does not have the seat bouncing you all around.
    • Keeps me from too tight of a grip on the handlebars

    With these advantages I can ride without pissing off most all but the fastest hardcore riders.
  2. Midnullarbor

    Midnullarbor Been here awhile

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    .
    Oldfatbeerman, you are very correct in your statements.

    What you can see BEHIND my "weightless-peg experiment" is the simple truth that everyone does [as you said well] "micro-manage" bar pressures & peg weights subconsciously.

    BTW that experiment can with difficulty be done, but it's rather pointless . . . and bloody harsh on the wrists. It just illustrates the wrongness of the idea that peg-weighting is the heart & soul of cornering. It's all a lot more complex than peg-weighting.

    And as you also rightly say, the so-called peg-weighting is of little importance when your just pootling around enjoying the ride.
    .
  3. Midnullarbor

    Midnullarbor Been here awhile

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    A small correction to the last line of my previous post ~
    ". . . when YOU'RE just pootling around and enjoying the ride."
    Cos there's no room for sloppy typing . . . or sloppy thinking . . . in this thread !!

    AT, you may well be right.
    For road racing, the angle of the bike is [mostly] irrelevant.

    But for cornering on dirt, I suspect there may be other factors going on.
    I have the intuitive ( unscientific !! ) thought that more angle is somehow helping the tyres corner a bit better ~ maybe it's nothing special to do with the knobs ~ or is it the more "cone" shape of the total wheel when the tyre shape is distorted by a greater angle ?

    It can't be more "weight" ~ the bike is exactly the same weight throughout the race (give or take a few litres of fuel & sweat & mud) whatever angle it's at. Yes, there are momentary changes of weight [i.e. vertical downward force] as the wheel goes over bumps, or suffers a bit of "weight transference" from accelerating/braking. But on steady cornering . . . no change.

    Dunno what. I'm puzzled . . . but hoping to find a dinkum explanation.
    .
  4. ECKS-Man

    ECKS-Man Been here awhile

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    [​IMG]

    Just adding some words what have somehow been missed in this thread...

    Somehow I think you are all trying to convince each other the same thing and that what we have here is a communication problem!
  5. eepeqez

    eepeqez Long timer

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    Sounds like shades of the crate full of canaries puzzle to me!

    Unless either the mass of an object or the gravitational field it is located in change, the weight doesn't change, not even momentarily.
  6. Dr AT

    Dr AT Long timer

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    SHIFT body weight was what I said.

    zeb: Keel up, keel down, sails out...hike a bit harder.. now we're on common ground- standing up is like hiking out and not cleating the mainsheet when flying the kite in 50 knts :deal
  7. Oldfatbeerman

    Oldfatbeerman Enroute to a PUB

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    Yep :clap , everybody's arse looks big when they wear the wrong coloured Nylons !:lol3
  8. eepeqez

    eepeqez Long timer

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    I suspect it's actually more like shifting about on a Moth as opposed to sitting still on a Noelex...

    PS, I'm more sort of pez than zeb here on account of zebedee already being taken, by someone else in Melbourne too!
  9. Dr AT

    Dr AT Long timer

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    Perhaps...but I can look at your avatar, realise it's upside down, understand the psychology and call you whatever I like:evil

    ps this came from a strom thread- more like sitting back in a mac
  10. Beemerboff

    Beemerboff Long timer

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    Wondered how long it would take someone to come up with the centre of mass thing.

    As for the rest of the quote, well it just demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of the whole subject - what we are discussing here is the complex dynamics of a body in motion, and any mass in motion will create a force.

    And it is the forces that these masses create that we are discussing here, as we are discussing moving motorcycles.

    Well most of use are, but if you want to discuss the handling of stationery motorcycles perhaps you would be better to give us the benefit of your expertise on that subject on another thread :D
  11. 568V8

    568V8 Ontario Vstrommer

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  12. eepeqez

    eepeqez Long timer

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    Oh dear. You really are so far out of your depth it is past funny.

    Masses in motions do not create forces.

    This is really really basic stuff. Read up on Newton's first law.

    And somewhere in the middle of this misguided homespun alternative physics discussion of masses creating forces and weights changing as objects moved, and so on, the perennial claim that standing up on the pegs lowers the centre of mass of a motorcycle and its rider appeared, confirming for anyone who was in any doubt that the writers had no clue about the physics they were seeking to invoke.

    If you can't get such basics as centre of mass, W=mg and F=ma correct, I can't see that you're in any position to invoke your special homespun version of physics to explain how a moving motorcycle works.

    At no point have I ventured an opinion about the benefits of standing up on the pegs.

    All I have done is to shoot down in flames some really basic mistakes.

    • Centre of mass is a property of masses and their locations and has nothing to do with the location, direction or magnitude of the forces supporting those masses.
    • Weight of a mass is constant in a constant gravitational field. When you go over a hump and get "weightless" for a short time, you do not become weightless, you accelerate downwards at g; 9.8m/ss.
    • Masses in motion do not "create forces". They have momentum and kinetic energy.
    Reading some of the stuff written here is like reading "alternative medicine" mumbo jumbo. It's got some of the right words, but that's where it ends.

    Using the right words and weaving them into complex sounding sentences may convince yourself, but it doesn't make any of what you write correct when it is laid of foundations of quicksand, foundations of a centre of mass which is dependent upon how the mass is supported, weights that change because they are moving (at speeds where relativistic effects are trivial) and masses that "create forces".

    Believing in alternative medicine is almost understandable but Newtonian physics is so basic and well understood that it is taught in high school to 16yos. The idea of believing in your own alternative physics is just plain daft.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dCoU0NHxAp8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  13. eepeqez

    eepeqez Long timer

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    Little kid: "Sir, sir! Your motorbike is falling over, the side stand is sinking in the quicksand!"

    Beemerboff: "Shutup kid, what would you know about flux capacitors!"
  14. Craneguy

    Craneguy British Hooligan

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    I grabbed this still from the opening bike chase in the new Bond movie, Skyfall (Incredible riding skills in that scene by the way)

    Which of the previously mentioned cornering techniques is being demonstrated in this fast right-hander? Discuss :rofl

    [​IMG]
  15. Oldfatbeerman

    Oldfatbeerman Enroute to a PUB

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    Photoshop :wink:
  16. itsgunnahurt

    itsgunnahurt Gravity Enhanced!

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    Maybe, or it could be he's was turning left and the bike is well on it's way to highside him into the road?


    :hide

    I can hear the road saying "So, we meet again, Mr Bond!"
  17. Russ

    Russ Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    Next week we should discuss the merits or lack thereof when it comes to counter steering.:lol3
  18. bully1

    bully1 Long timer

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    countersteering is over-rated. :eek1
  19. Rucksta

    Rucksta SS Blowhard

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    Can we discuss countersteering after we move this thread to perfect line.

    There is no Australian specific content and the contributors come from an international pool.
    I'm sure there are many more keyboard jockeys on Perfect Line who would like to play this game. (again)

    After taking a dip in the bigger pond of perfect line the thread could be moved to the basement where some of the present contributors can see how total tossers behave on line.
    Maybe then they will learn something to aspire to and practice.
  20. itsgunnahurt

    itsgunnahurt Gravity Enhanced!

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    .. in relation to shaft driven bikes and why they cannot be countersteered...


    follow that up why a motorcycle cannot have a capacity of more than 1351cc







    welcome to alt.rec.motorcycles...