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Discussion in 'Trials' started by RiverRatRider13, Sep 19, 2012.
Just my 2 cents. I rode trials 20 years ago and just got back into it 4 months ago. I have done 8 contests so far and done well in each of them. I am 45 as of today and the best adjustment I made on my bike was to raise the bars 1/2". This made me more comfortable allowing me to ride longer as well as better. I say try it if it does not work for you by all means change it back. For me it was night and day difference on my back.
Really? A 1/2" rise made it like night and day?
PS; are your backs that bad that a 1/2 -1" rise makes that much difference in your trail (not trial) riding?
I think that my Alpinestars boots are 1/2" higher in the soles than my Gaernes. I should have raised the bars to get my world right again!
Are we talking observed trials at a decent class level or mostly guys riding around on trials bikes?
I've had this discussion with dirt bikers with about the same results.
There have been some very good riders in this thread giving free and good advice. You guys jack up your bikes any way you want! At least we are all riding!
What is even funnier about risers. Go measure peg height compared to bar height of any 1985 trials bike to a modern bike and it now favors the taller rider by leaps and bounds!!!! Go ride any twin shock and you will see what `bent` over `was`!
You sure about that? At the end of a trial (at least the hot summer events), I feel pretty thoroughly whooped. It's not uncommon for my fourth loop score to show the fatigue too. In fact, I flat-out fell apart at the last event with loop scores of 3,2,5 and 14. :eek1 I was having a really good ride for the first 3/4 of the day...
I need to learn to relax when I ride.
The old gray mare ain't what she used to be. I understand that age thing.
Yea, that is huge as well as in the sections. Ski students are very tight and tense. I tell them the body can't react in a sprung position and it zaps energy. Of course riding a lot and working out, eating right, blah blah.
Uh, 4 loops, yea that would do it for me.
It sounds a bit inconsistent given the other changes I have made but it somehow seems (to me anyway) that putting a seat on a trials bike destroys its 'purity'. There is something so cool about the minimalism of a trials bike. The beta already has a 3.2 liter tank and I carry a couple of 600ml coke bottles filled with gas in my backpack.
I have a wr450 for longer distance rides where I need to sit down - problem is it now feels like such as truck to ride compared to the beta.
I can think of worse things than a long distance trials bike in NZ.
Gordy, I support 80% of your post, or more. I like to point out that our bikes are designed around some "general" height/weight considerations. that the 1/2 inch spacers under the bars "SEEMS TO BE" a fairly great way to make a 6ft 1inch rider (my dad for instance) be able to stand on the bike very similiar to how I stand on the bike without them. His legs are longer, torso not that much different. I, however am only 5ft 7inches, I ride dad's bike semi often, even had to ride his, one time when my gasgas let me down one weekend at our club event. the 1/2 inch riser affected me for about 1 of the 3 loops, by the end of the 1st loop I got used to them.
I also remind you that just because Raga/Bou do or dont use the risers, it is MOST LIKELY because they seem to be at the perfect height for what the bikes are being "designed" around. If Bou was 6ft 2inches, and weighed double what he does, either the bikes would relflect his 'adjustments' aka springs, and bar risers. Plus they make "taller" bars bent identical to what the bikes sell with, just for the reason. We do spacers, instead of custom bars, because dad and I strive for interchange-ability of our bikes! If he had taller bars, but had accident bent or broken, unless he buys spares, he has to use what I use (we actually keep 3 bikes, most of the time, like now we have a 10,11, & 12 Raga 300 in our stable, last year it was 08, 10, & 11 Raga). Risers are relatively easy to swap!
My dad is 76, the risers are mandatory for him, I don't know, I DON'T think moving the bars up a little hurts taller people as nearly as much as it does a "non-tall" rider like me!
I just say you are meaning the right thing, people ask John Force, for instance what does he do to win 15 championships (other than just money lol), BUT if they asked it here on ADV, they'd get pissy when he said "well there seems to be best results with his 4 inch throttle lever mounted comfortably 28 inches from the base of the race seat... For god's sake everyone if you ask what the people that ride hard, eat breath and love trials, then take the advice for what it is, ADVICE. if your leggs are 44 inches, then you might have to move the lever different measurements? Ya think? But maybe the key was how his leg fits on the pedals? this is just an analogy, not perfect.
And I would dare say that if you weigh exactly what Raga/Bou does, and same height, (what about 170-180 lbs at 5ft 9inches?) then 20 years of research seems to have proven, that the bike is damn near perfect from the factory, as far as ergonomics to do the best you can do in "TRIALS"? Deviation from that may or may not "help" the rider to become a Raga/Bou, so how far to change anything, would be incrimental? Lampkin was a good argument, for a tall SOB on a trials bike, anyone know if he might not have used different bars, or riser mods? (forgot who are the big dogs for Ossa and Sherco right now? sorry or I would include them in this arguement). If this crap doesn't seem to work, you know I dont think S-3 would have much chance in hell selling them? but who knows.
I think it takes 2 brain cells to rub together that 3 inch bar risers, when NOBODY that is "COMPETANT" and proven good, trials riders use them... I mean hell, you can swing a golf club like a baseball bat, if you tee the ball that high, but most people seem to try to learn to swing the clubs, like the pro golfers do, not reinvent the wheel and how we roll the damn things...
I must also say, that It is weird that 1/2 inch makes that much difference, but also have to say, that even though I got used to them, I still struggled with them, and I will NOT use them.
Dad's trying to get them off the 2011, to move to his 2012 raga as we speak, regional's this weekend. Not sure which bike I'll ride. my 2010 has been pretty dang good to me, and they do "run" different, but I wont know until we get those RISERS off the 11 if I can ride it as well... LOL :huh
Raga is about 5-7,140 pounds.
Recently, a guy asked me to ride his 400 KTM to see what I thought. He had about 2" risers.
I thought I was going to kill myself and could not turn the damn thing to save my soul. I may be funny, but I like to feel what the front tire is doing and can't do that without being able to push some weight onto it.
A lot of desert riders still use them and I think it is a carry over from the "old days". Back then, everyone had high bars. Have you ever sat on a vintage Husky with stock bars? :huh
anyway........for observed trials, and if you aren't crippled up, try to roll the stock bars forward "a touch" and see if you can make coners better without dabbing. It may take a day or more to get used to it, but try it uphill, downhill, on sidehills, off-camber, loose, etc.
If it doesn't help, like others have said, you can always do something else!
BTW, core/back strengthing and stretching (for old guys) is best left to another thread!
Shut the front door. No way is he bigger than Tom Cruise!!
I bought a used GSA from a really tall guy and he'd installed risers. I'm 6ft 3in and think they are pretty darn comfortable. I couldn't imagine leaning forward - for 2 or 3 inches - for a long time.
There is a GS forum down the hall to the left. (they all pull that way)
Dougie Lampkin, Bruno Comozi, Andrew Codina, Tommi Avalah, Jeoff Arron. Big guys. If my Dad was at that age and wanted to ride around on a trials bike, I would make any and all changes that he likes the most. Foam grips, very wide foot pegs, risers, a padded seat, whatever. Also total ATGATT! You are blessed to have Pops out and about on a trials bike with you. But what better bike to ride in the woods and on the trails. Count your blessings sir. Salute to your Dad.
I'm bored at work.
Raga is right at 5'11" from his web-site. I can't believe that he is only 140#.
Um, no he's 1.8 meters (lol). that is 5ft 9 inches. from the "biography pages"
Again, I agree with Gordy, the closer you stay to where "most people" are setup, the better chance you have of NOT causing yourself a weird handicap, too tall of risers cause too many problems, seen from experience.
Last time I checked. A meter was 39.36 inches long. That puts him at just under 5'11.
Now standing next to him - I would say that's pretty close and I was surprised how stout he was. (as well as Bou who is a fire plug).
Im not sure where this 140lbs is coming from but I need to find THAT SCALE!