Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by timbo45, Aug 6, 2013.
ECM Spy... Google works wonders ill shut up now
Okay, here is the straight skinny on that. I just spent quite a bit of time on the phone with a very knowledgeable tech at Dyno Jet (Power Commander) and was able to verify some things we already knew, but wanted official clarification on. Feel free to edit or submit additions of opinion. We have done everything below with great success.
Models Available From Power Commander:
Dyno Jet only lists PC3's from 07-08 and PCV's from 09-11. Here is the skinny. The PCV's DO work on 2012 ADVs. We have everything they make on our 2012 ADV R (Including the LCD, switch and even the quick shifter). It is all the exact same as the 2011. The reason they do not list the 2012's is that they will not list any bike they have not personally had their hands on (good business) and the KTM dealer in Vegas has closed shop. We assured them that not only does their PCV units for 09-11 work just on 2012's, that also the dual wide-band is accepted by the PCV as well as they only list single wide band available for the Auto Tune on KTMs. They claimed that dual channel wide band's necessity for water-cooled engines is debatable as pricing for customers is a factor but admitted that dual wide band is better. They went on to say that single channel is fine for water cooled engines and only really seems to yield a 4% difference between cylinders. Air cooled bikes like Harley need the dual band.
Auto Tune for PCV:
We purchased a new 2012 ADV R purely for testing (As far as the IRS knows) and because of our intakes and plans for offering different configurations of exhausts in the future (See us at the KTM Rally to see them) and the convienience to our customers by offering pre loaded or downloadable maps, we invested in everything Dyno Jet (Power Commander) makes. We feel it is the most common piggy back tuner available and is preferred by most dyno tuners as that is what they are trained in as Dyno Jet also makes the dynometers themselves. The Auto Tune feature gives us the ability to create an unlimited amount of maps for our customers from economy all the way to pure power maps. Although many tuners will tell you that you don't need it, and they are correct in normal circumstances, it is in part because the Auto tune does their jobs for them. Some shops with dynos will never tell you about Auto Tune for that reason and some even use it on the dyno by hooking it up, setting the AFR's and just running your bike. It does exactly what a good tuner does. Just while your on the bike and constantly. An additional benifit with the add on switch and the LCD, is the ability to store a huge number of maps and switch them on the fly. One instance that we use is to install an "economy" base map that is around 14.0 + (Never more than 14.6 according to Dyno Jet) and then set the Auto Tune to a more "power" producing mode using AFR values of around 12.8 to 13.4. This allows us to turn off the Auto Tune on the fly with the switch and then turn it back on (Or load a different map with the LCD computer) and get full power once I get to my destination. This is very cool and works flawlessly. Eventually we will do a step by step article on this set up to take the fear out of it. If you can afford a $15,000.00 dirt bike, you should be smart enough to accomplish this. If not, we are here to help. If you are not worried about changing set ups or don't care to tweak stuff, Auto tune is not necessary, but very, very cool and adjusts to any set up or environment within minutes. We likey that.
Fear of loading maps:
Don't be. Our Tune ECU map for intake and 2-1 exhaust works very well if you have our intake and some sort of exhaust. Many people have thousands of miles on it with great results. It is by far rich enough to be safe and while it may be slightly lean at sea level, it is still way in the safe zone and probably producing in the mid to high 13.6 AFR's. Totally safe as your only in the red at 14.6 +. Download Tune ECU, get the cable ($70 or so) upload and save your stock map somewhere, (ECU / read ECU), open the ADV 990 2011 IN - EX - Tune ECU map, uncheck SAI radio button in the lower left to turn off the SAS FI light, uncheck 2nd throttle if you have removed your secondary butterflies, don't uncheck it if you haven't and load the CPR map. Ride. If it backfires allot, runs hot or glows the header immediately your lean. (But should not be at all)
Another double check, take a screen shot of your stock map values after you have downloaded it (read it from your ECU). After you have uploaded the CPR map ADV 990 2011 IN - EX - Tune ECU map into the ECU, "read" the map again to verify it's was downloaded properly into your ECU and compare it to the stock screen shot values. This give you piece of mind as a newbie to Tune ECU that yoiu have done it correctly.
What to expect:
Using our free maps will definitely get you safe and produce good power at a cheap entry.
Obtaining a Power Commander or other tuning devise and having your bike tuned on a dyno will be safe and make crisper and smoother power than another map that was made for another bike.
Using an Auto Tune is pricey, but will adjust for everything on the fly, is very safe so long as you keep the Auto Tune tables under 14.6 and is infinitely adjustable if your a tweaker and perfect for providing maps.
The LCD touch screen addition will allow you to see everything that is going on with the bike which give you great piece of mind, both cylinders individually if you have the dual band, allow you to see what gear your in, store multiple maps to switch on the fly, see your throttle position, RPM, fuel adjustments for that TP and RPM and so on. Super tweaker and perfect for providing maps.
The quick shifter is just fun on an ADV. Full throttle up shifts. Yeah.
awesome write up. i am more of a lurker but i originally joined this forum so i could ask the same questions about filters and after, pardon the pun, filtering through all the bs, i ended up with a rottweiler system and am over the moon about it. one of the best mods i have found by far. install took a few hours at my skill level which is low but ultimately pretty straightforward and cpr does a great job with the support. a++ in my book all the way around. looking forward to new stuff from them.
Great response, info and support from CPR. Can you address the mapping situation for the '07 and '08 990s? I understand that there is some difference that changes which maps work??
From what we understand, KTM just changed the physical wiring or the way / order it pins out. Not sure yet about the ECU. Since it's a different year it may have a different part number but work the same. We don't know that one as of this moment. One year on the 690 KTM switched polarity on its injectors. That's it! The fix at the time was to just swap the pins in the plugs which is super easy. KTM does some strange stuff sometimes and the aftermarket companies are the one's that really take the brunt of that. Including us with some strange phone calls we have taken about odd parts we have never seen.
PCV's are not available for 07 -08 ADV's anyway, only PC3 and the PC3 won't accept PCV files as the PCV came after. The PCV will take PC3 maps though.
So here is what we suggest:
If we have (or anyone) has a PCV map that you want to run but you have an older KTM 07-08 with say a PC3, we can send you a screen shot of the enrichment values for each cylinder and just copy them matching the throttle position and RPM squares one by one. Tedious I know, but effective as you are accomplishing the same thing and the RPM / TP increments are exactly the same between PC3 and PCV. Here is where a Tune ECU conversion gets tricky. Their TP / RPM increments are more detailed, which in essence is better, but gets tricky if your hand copying values square by square. They also start RPM from the bottom and PCV / 3 starts RPM at the top of the page. No bid deal but adds confusion. Oh, and the cylinders are numbered backwards (PCV is 1 in the front and KTM is 1 in the rear) so you have to account for that. Yikes.
So... We are working on an Excel conversion program where you can copy and paste your stock values from Tune ECU and then copy paste a PCV / 3 value table and use the enrichments from the PCV / 3 tables to provide a new Tune ECU map that can be copy pasted right back in and wha-la, a proper Tune ECU map. The problems we are having is the copy paste function in Tune ECU is funky and doesn't like it so far. We're working on it.
I was fairly set to get your intake - now I am absolutely convinced that you are knowledgeable, invested in the KTM market and here to support your customer base - good for you (and us); the world needs more vendors like you. I am heading to Indy MotoGP (on my 2102 990 Adventure R) today, will be placing an order for your intake either one evening while I'm away or as soon as I return on Monday.
I've heard very good things about Bazzaz and used one on a former bike (2009 Yamaha R1) but I've always felt more comfortable with Power Commander - your comments and information help cement that comfort with PC...
I wish we could provide more information on Bazzaz and we have heard better and better things but most or all of our time is invested in Dyno Jet products which is why we sell them. Familiarity breeds preference in addition to what seems to be most commonly preferred by customers and dyno tuners alike. If I'm correct, you cannot tune cylinders separately on Bazzaz which is a considerable downside. Again, on liquid cooled motors its debatable but still better to tune separate. (If I am wrong on Bazzaz tuning cylinders someone please edit)
Thank you for your comments as well. Moving forward we are investing allot of our time and money into new ideas for the KTM crowd including participating in the rally in CO. We can't wait for the opportunity to shake hands with the hard core enthusiasts and get to know them better as a company. We have been overwhelmingly flattered by what has been said here and elsewhere and, if I may, we take it as an indication of what you should expect from a vendor.
Rotweiler filter is on and the SAS is removed Time to Remap
Chris - I installed the CPR, PCV and Autotune. Set it for a 13.2 across the board and went for a ride. Came back and accepted all trims.
Should the target AFR at that point go to 0's? Mine did. The trims also went to 0, but I expected that.
Does the PCV still have the 13.2 tune in it? When I "get Map", it shows the AFR at 0.
That's too lean at 100%. Set 100% TPS to 12.8. Idle at 14.1 if oxygenated crappy fuel to 14.7 if you run good gas.
Tahoeracer is the one to listen to on the AFR's for sure. Dude knows his stuff and has more metering devices in his bike that I thought you could mount!
As far as the AFR values I have no idea why those are zeroed (??) The trims will go to zero. That's normal. But the AFR values should always maintain the last value you put them at. That's one cool thing about the LCD is that you know FOR SURE what the bike is doing, not what it supposed to. That's a new one but I'm thinking you should reset them, save the file with all your notes and send it once more with the AFR values you want. (See tahoeracer's suggestions) Then check it again. Maybe you set them, sent the file and didn't save it? That's just a shot in the dark.
Thanks Chris. Saving my $$ for the LCD. I like to tinker, so it will be worth it.
Tahoeacr, I'll change the 100% to 12.8 for all rpm's. So are you saying change the 0% throttle from 500 to 2250 rpm to 14.1? it's idling right now at 13.5 or so.
We have the LCD's so let us know when your ready. They are VERY cool and take a little bit of set up, but do some really cool stuff and allot of it. I really wish they would use an iPhone though. THAT, would be fantastic. Banks does it for diesels and supports iPads as well. Crack for tuners...
will do Chris. BTW, I guess I wasn't saving the tune after I sent it. Everything is working as it should now and the bike is running the best it ever has!
You shouldn't have to save it after you send it. I was only thinking that maybe, you set the values for the first time, sent it and then never saved it which is why it maybe went back to zero. Purely speculation though.
We will be creating maps in the future so that the non tweakers can benefit from them for free if they have a PCV. We are currently even working on a conversion program to turn the PCV files into Tune ECU to make it even cheaper to get the right tune for our filter at a super cheap entry. We are also entertaining the idea of lending out Tune ECU cables for only the cost of the return shipping. If it's not returned withing 2 weeks they bought it. (something like that) Let us know what you think.
i'm pretty sure I never saved it, because it's working as advertised now.
That's a great idea regarding the conversion and loan of the tune ecu cable!
Totally in favor of a conversion tool. Love tuneEcu and I'm not gonna buy a PC-whatever. It'd be nice to be able to choose a proven tune a little closer to my existing hardware...
More maps the better for TuneEcu. I am thinking of an open air filter for my 06 990, but am hesitant to alter the fairly good running Im now getting with the Akra map.
If there was more proven maps to try that suit the open air filter set up I would be more inclined to buy.
Chris, I'm in Toronto, Canada so I'm going to call you to explore shipping options that won't take two weeks to get to me and then place my order. I've already got my canisterectomy done, going to do my SAS removal today/tomorrow so I'll be ready for your intake system.