RPM Erratic Rev Issue 990 KTM Adventure 2007

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by dgjackson40, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. dgjackson40

    dgjackson40 Been here awhile

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    Firstly sorry for the long post and thanks for looking and helping if possible.
    <?xml:namespace prefix = "o" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    I have had an ongoing erratic over revving issue with my 2007 990 Adv. The last occurrence was today. Temperature this morning was about 30 when I left home and the bike started up normally and idled at about 2000 rpm for a minute or so and then settled down to 14k. I rode to work which is only a mile and shut the bike off. At noon I went to start the bike to head home for lunch. The bike didn&#8217;t start normally and just cranked over. I cycled the ignition and it started right up and idled at 2k for a minute then without touching throttle it went to 3k for about 45 seconds then back to 14k. Outside temp was now near 45. I rode home had lunch and then started the bike up normally after about an hour and it idled at 14k. I started for work and about half way to work the RPM&#8217;s went to about 3k when I pulled in the clutch at a stop light. They then went to 4k as I took off from the light and settled at about 5k as I was nearing work. I had to shut the key off at the next light and restart the bike. It idled normally the rest of the way to work and I now sit at work wondering how it will operate when I start home.
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    The bike has been displaying theses symptoms for about 3 months now. It has been winter and I haven&#8217;t ridden much but it will perform in this manner about 1 out of 3 times riding the bike to work or on outings of 100 mile or more. There is no rhyme or reason I can pick out for when it might happen. Today is the first time it has revved up to 5k without any input from the throttle. This is becoming a fair bit of a nuisance. The bike has 30700 miles on it. I changed the oil at 30400. I put in new iridium plugs and adjusted the valves at 30600 miles all within the past month. There was only one rear exhaust valve that needed a smaller shim. The rest were within spec. So I have had the throttle body completely off the bike and cleaned it up and checked all connections when we put it back on the bike. I have TUNEECU and was reading up on how to use it. My bike has the OEM map for a 2007 which I verified with TUNEECU. I have a screen shot of readings from the only time I have hooked it up. Basically for the Throttle I am seeing 18.3. 0.79V top row and 0%, 2% and 1.25V bottom row. Screen shots of that hook up are in this thread: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=960473 I&#8217;ll
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    I am planning a 700 mile ride this weekend and am hoping this will not be an issue if I can&#8217;t find a way to adjust/fix it between now and Saturday morning.
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    Has anyone else had similar issues with their 990 and if so did you find a solution?
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    #1
  2. dgjackson40

    dgjackson40 Been here awhile

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    I have read a previous post titled 2006 990 Adventure and TUNEECU: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=676044&page=4 started by ddorrons. He was having same issue except his bike would sometimes die with no throttle. Mine has never died and doesn’t idle below 14k.
    <?xml:namespace prefix = "o" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p> </o:p>
    He had 35 posts and last one was on 5/3/2011 below. Hope he didn’t have catastrophic failure on the bike with the over revving issue and therefore never posted again!
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    “Yesterday I had an epiphany, it seems that every time I connect the bike while the engine is off the readings are right, it is after the bike is warm that it portrays the issues, I also noted that the voltage of the battery after a long ride is still 12 volts, it does not increase. So i thought, ok so what if the TPS (hardware) is fine, what would be a factor that would send the wrong signal to the bike? Current! if the current is not regulated adequately the TPS will not receive the right amount and hence it will transmit a wrong signal. So i went ahead and checked the regulator output. With the bike on, as I accelerate the output of the regulator decreases! Is this right? So again, I thought of the last sympton, as I was riding at 100km/h the bike started to accelerate an decelerate by itself and then the FI light turned on. I read the code and it said it is code p0122 which says that the TPS Voltage is low. I took down the regulator today and I am going to take it to be tested. I will have u posted with the outcome.”
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    He never posted again and so 5 pages of very helpful information but it never indicated that he had solved his problem. My bike is having the same symptoms and I was hoping not to have to go through all the steps he did to solve my problem if the fix was unrelated to all the steps he took to determine the root cause.
    #2
  3. Sumi

    Sumi Long timer

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    2 of my friends had similiar issues. turned out it was a faulty TPS in both cases. They're problem-free since they've changed it for a new one.
    #3
  4. dgjackson40

    dgjackson40 Been here awhile

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    Sumi, thats where I felt this was leading. Darn it. I am hooking up TUNEECU as we speak to do some testing.
    #4
  5. Pistolero

    Pistolero W. F. O.

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    you can check the tps with tune ecu.
    The procedure/specifications for the above is in the service manual.
    if it tests good and is adjusted properly

    do this...:deal

    Re install your map.
    Re adjust your throttle cables via tune ecu.
    then clear the adaptation via tune ecu.
    then do the 15 min idle from dead cold.

    IN THIS ORDER.
    #5
  6. Pistolero

    Pistolero W. F. O.

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    there are several several threads about this buried in here as well as on most of the SD forums. The problem being no one comes back to say what fixed the problem :puke1...

    A few have reported replacing the whole TB set up... dont do this... thats stupid :deal...

    I know for a fact that what I told you to do will solve the problem if done properly unless of course your TPS (or various other sensors) has actually taken a shit... but you should be able to see discrepancies in the range of the tps if there is an issue.

    The ECU has become 'confused' and needs re adapted.. without explaining how the whole systems works thats the best way I can describe it.
    Long story short is that FI systems are WAY WAY more sophisticated that most give them credit for and are very touchy at times.

    PM me if you have anymore questions.
    I'll give you my phone number and you can call me.
    I tend not to post in threads like this because people tend to know everything and I don't like to deal with it but I also know how bad it sucks to have a bike that's being a fucker...

    .
    #6
  7. dgjackson40

    dgjackson40 Been here awhile

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    PM sent. Thanks!
    #7
  8. Sumi

    Sumi Long timer

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    I don't know if TuneECU will show the problem, or you can cure the problem with a system reset (*especially if it really is a faulty tps, which is a hardware failure instead of a software failure, or misalignment) - as we spent days with the factory KTM diagnostic (and data logger) tool to diagnose and/or solve the problem, but nothing strange showed up - maybe some occasional voltage spikes in the TPS circuit, but we were not sure if that's the real case (at least at that time). So we started to swap everything on the bikes, batteries, o2 sensors, ecus, harnesses, you name it.. and the only cure was swapping the whole throttle bodies for a known good working one. And that's where I've lost track on the project, but the guys said afterwards that it was the TPS afterall.. Fortunatelly for some years now on it can be purchased separately from the whole throttle body cpl., and it's not a too expensive item, about a hundred bucks.

    *Ofc we reloaded the maps, reset the ecu (and that's the logical thing to do first, I recommend you the same - it might be as a simple cure as that), did all the hacks the factory tool allowed us to do - which is quite the same as TuneECU allows.. But those TPS can develope a hardware failure over time - without any physical abuse - and KTM kind of aknowledged this, hence they started to sell the TPS as a separate part.. But just my $0.02
    #8
  9. dgjackson40

    dgjackson40 Been here awhile

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    I am guessing this is not a good thing:

    [​IMG]
    #9
  10. dgjackson40

    dgjackson40 Been here awhile

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    Well, I have done everything I can using TuneECU to try to get the TPS and throttle cables adjusted properly. Each time I think its working out and all is running smoothly then the high rev issue gremlin reappears.

    I have read every thread and followed a myriad of directions to fix this thing to no avail. Spent yet another afternoon Sunday in the garage working with the software and physically adjusting the TPS on the throttle body. I thought I had it perfect and went on a short ride Sunday evening and it felt great. So then decided to take it for a better trial run Monday evening after work. Took it on some decent blacktop and gravel roads for an hour and a half. At about an hour into the ride it began feeling like it was missing out going thru third gear. Then the dreaded high rev started. Sometimes 3k to 4k and on up to 5k with clutch pulled in. Even died once attempting to gear down for a stop sign. When it would start this I could hit the on off switch and restart and it would be ok for a few miles.

    I thought that since I hadn't reset the adaptation and 15 minute idle after working on it Sunday that I would do that this morning before work and perhaps it would sort out and run ok for even a short period but after hooking up to TuneECU the TPS read at .83. I done another throttle adjustment and got it down to .67. Started bike and began the 15 minute idle, remembered I had not reset adaptation and shut it down and another throttle adjustment and then reset adaption and started 15 minute idle. TPS went to .88 and idled at 5k so I just shut it down and took the GoldWing to work and here I sit.

    During the afternoon Sunday with several throttle adjustments and physical TPS adjustments the TPS readings after completing a simple idle speed adjustment test would jump to .88 after having them set to .67. At one time on Sunday I had the TPS set at .63 but after buttoning it back up and attempting to test ride it would just die before I could get out of the driveway and I had to set it to .67 before it would run. I am guessing with the erratic behavior of the TPS readings after sometimes only completing an Idle Speed Control test is indicating that perhaps I do indeed have a bad TPS. Looks like I'll be throwing more money at it and if new TPS doesn't do the trick I'll probably have to get out of the KTM business! I have already sold my VStar cruiser in order to afford everything so far on this bike. (WP rebuild, Filter Kit, Tires, Tune ECU cable, Fuel Filter Kit, Side Stand Relo, Plugs, Shim Kit, Block off Plates) And to think this all started when I noticed the Neutral light is not coming on all the time when it should. Have been chasing that gremlin also to no avail and leaning towards new sensor.

    Hell I only bought this bike December 1st and it appears summer may pass me by before ever getting to see what it can do!
    #10
  11. dgjackson40

    dgjackson40 Been here awhile

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    I guess I have been grasping at straws for a while hoping someone would find a simple quick lasting fix for this type of issue or matter-of-factly link it to faulty TPS!
    #11
  12. pdxthmper

    pdxthmper Been here awhile

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    I had erratic rpm at idle on my 2007, turned out to be a low voltage issue from corroded connectors at the voltage RR. Have you checked your charging voltage, and RR? I cleaned those up and my issue went away.
    #12
  13. gefr

    gefr Life is a trip

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    If someone can lend you a TPS to check out that would be great, cause it costs $100.

    [​IMG]

    At the point it usually works, the copper is worn. This is from a 2006 bike with 55000kms, not too old, but the rider is always playing with the throttle.

    [​IMG]
    Cheers.
    #13
  14. dgjackson40

    dgjackson40 Been here awhile

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    I'll check those connections before I install the new TPS when it arrives this week. That would save me some $$ if that is the issue and I can return the part.

    Gefr, the TBs on this bike had never been messed with prior to my buying the bike and installing foam filter kit but the erratic idle had began prior to my installing the filter kit. I had just hoped that putting in your gas filters and installing the new air kit would have solved the problem but nay. I am going to check all electrical connections, check for any air leaks, adjust throttle cables and reload maps and reset adaption prior to installing the new TPS when it comes just to be sure all around.
    #14
  15. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    I assume the test procedure for the TPS on the FI bikes is similar to the carb'd bikes [in the service manual]? Check VDC as you turn throttle? If so, did these "faulty TPS"s pass or fail the test?
    #15
  16. Sumi

    Sumi Long timer

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    First of all, you don't need to insert a voltmeter into the harness, as you can read out the voltage levels with a diagnostic software. Apart from this, it's quite the same, but the KTM factory tool let's you log the TPS's (I think the 990 has a secondary TPS as well, maybe it's called a different way) values and it's easier to spot anomalies.. The TPS's I've seen actually produced a good readout when turning the throttle, but at a steady opening (or idle) they produced a couple voltage spikes now and then (sometimes 5 mins apart).
    #16
  17. dgjackson40

    dgjackson40 Been here awhile

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    Received new TPS today (P/N 61041077000 THROTTLE POS. SENSOR CPL) and here is how I beleive I will procede with installation:
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    1. With bike cold and without starting I will R&R TPS sensor.
    2. Hook bike up to TuneECU and take readings to see where new TPS values are.
    3. Adjust TPS to desired voltage if out of range.
    4. Complete a throttle adjustment and take readings again (previously after any test of throttle or idle speed control the TPS voltage increased)
    5. If adjustment remains constant after replacement and tests I will reload maps and reset adaptation.
    6. Complete 15 minute idle and then ride!

    P.S. any previous test while turning the throttle showed normal results. I never tried holding a steady throttle above closed.
    #17
  18. bikyto

    bikyto Dans le doute...gaz!

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    Fwiw, the tps values will vary (sometimes greatly) between a cold engine and a warm one.
    Adjusting the tps is best on a warm engine IMO.

    Good luck, you're almost there!!:clap
    #18
  19. Gustavo.Ramos

    Gustavo.Ramos Long timer

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    I'm one of those who replaced the whole TB assembly, hence i may belong into the stupid group.

    However... after spending hundreds of hours, yes hundreds of hours over several months taking parts out, riding with only left tank, adjusting adjusting adjusting, i gave up and f...ck this sh..t, got a set of used TB's for the price of a new TPS.

    Instant fix, purred like a kitten, grunt when whacking the throttle open, and my beast was back. Later used the same TB's into another 990 with that bike's TPS.

    No issue.

    faulty TPS
    #19
  20. dgjackson40

    dgjackson40 Been here awhile

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    Well I got the new TPS on the bike this past Saturday. I pretty much followed the steps I outlined earlier as far as installing on a cold bike. When I put the new TPS on I just tightened the adjusting screw up and then checked reading with TuneECU. It read .40v without any adjusting. I manually adjusted it to .64v and then started the bike and it idled fine at about 1440.

    Shut the bike off and then for shits and grins I went to the test page and ran through the various tests from top down. When I hit the "idle speed control" test the TPS voltage immediately went to .88v. I started the bike and sure enough RPM shot to about 4k. Shut off bike and then used the "Adjust Throttle" on TuneECU. After it retracted I shut bike off and did not touch cables. When I switched back on the TPS read .68v.

    At this point I just want a running bike so I reloaded the map and then reset the adaptation and let the bike run for 15 minutes. I rode the bike all weekend putting about 200 mile on it and it never died and never went into the high idle issue. About 80 of the miles was gravel back roads varying speeds etc. Cruised fine at 80 mph on blacktop 6th gear 4k. By Sunday evening I think the new TPS is doing the trick.

    I commute to work on the bike if you can call it a commute as its only a mile with about 4 lights and a couple stop signs. I am thinking now that this bike just despises urban living! It hasn't been a big issue but the bike now has a less erratic idle upon start up. It'll have low idle at about 12k on initial start up and then will go to 2k for a second or two and back down to about 13k it does this a couple of times before I take off after 1 or 2 temp bars. About 3 times in the past 3 days during commute it has died coming upon traffic or stop sign. I drive the bike to work, home for lunch and back then home after work so about 6 miles a day. It has not thankfully exhibited the 3 to 4k stuck throttle. Hopefully it is just adapting to my riding??? I will probably check the TPS with TuneECU again this weekend while hot and try to adjust to maybe .70 and see how it acts. I'll report back after trying for a couple hundred more miles.

    What it is still doing that it has been doing from the day I bought the bike and what began my quest to make it better, is the neutral light still just comes on when it feels like it. I have taken the switch off twice. First time I had only sanded the contacts and reinstalled. I then noticed a puddle of oil under the bike after a week of sitting. Before installing the TPS I took the switch off again and made sure I had the oring in properly and stretched out the little springs behind the plungers (?) a tad then torqued up snugly and so far no leak but still neutral light is sporadic. Thinking possibly acquiring a new switch and maybe a new clutch switch just for peace of mind.

    I really would like to develop some confidence in this bike should I get the opportunity for some extended riding this summer.
    #20