SBW Sidecar

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by Dickie, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. Dickie

    Dickie Seasoned Sidecarist

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Oddometer:
    48
    Location:
    Northants, England
    Hey Bobmws, nice to see another waste water sidecarist on here. Me too work with the dirty stuff.
    #41
  2. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,272
    Location:
    Minnesota
    The Europeans generally have cooler stuff than we do and lots of small shops doing interesting work,I'm on a Ducati Elefant list with more Euros and they get lots of trick stuff done easily, here not so much.My trip to Claude's seemed interesting they seem to have lots of small venders doing things tool makers, powder coat ,ceramic coating etc. I live in the Mayo Clinics Company town and none of that is available in town easily.

    On another note how do you define Poseur ? I'm advrider fleamarket has tons of Farkled bikes at good prices ! This is the Hack list where if you have a big CSM or DMC BMW based rig you've tossed allot of money at it and when am I going to learn the secret handshake ? rhetorical it doesn't require an answer.

    I was at the Auburn,Cord,Dusenburg festival once almost all the Dusies (there where only 14) where driven by the owners 2nd or 3rd wife as the owners mostly men in their 80's where apparently old affluent poseurs !
    #42
  3. SBW Motorrad

    SBW Motorrad Adventurer

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    Oddometer:
    10
    Dear All

    Thank you for your feed back on the design of the SBW Sidecar. Reading some of your comments I thought that I might be able to help answer some of the queries that have been raised.

    Firstly SBW Motorrad are a BMW Motorrad main dealer based in the UK and the business has been in existence for around 30 years. We don't sell or maintain anything other than BMW motorcycles and we the team here are all devoted to offer the best service that we can to our customers. I am very proud to be able to say that we were in receipt of an award from BMW AG in 2011 for 'Outstanding achievements and success for BMW Motorrad'. I am proud because in the UK we were placed second to BMW themselves, and I only employ 10 people. So we are a small team committed to looking after our customers.

    The thing that we are perhaps best known for, is that we have been building bikes for Kevin and Julia Sanders together with many of their customer bikes for the last few years. So we have some experience of building GS bikes that have travelled the Pan Americas as well as Africa and the Silk Road.

    I was approached a year ago by a husband and wife team who asked me to design and build a Sidecar for them that would work with an R1200GS Adventure. Primarily because having had a sidecar previously they had researched the market and couldn't find exactly what they were looking for in the way of a product that would answer their needs. Their plan was to sell their house and travel around the world for as long as the money lasts.

    As an engineering challenge I agreed to the project but as it was a subject I initially knew little about I consulted with the most experienced sidecar manufacturers in the UK, Watsonian Squire, to check my designs and geometry. They have participated in the development of the enterprise an since become subcontractors for the space frame structure.

    The brief from our customer was that the sidecar should provide a robust but comfortable well protected seat that was capable of travelling on unmade roads. This is an interesting challenge because the BMW GS achieves this with lots of suspension articulation and this in itself seems at odds with the fairly firm set up of most sidecar outfits. To achieve plenty of suspension travel the suspension design places the coil over unit away from the hub in order to free up the space around the control arms. In addition it also meant that I could quickly change the actual unit without interfering with the rest of the suspension.

    The design of the hub rehouses as many BMW components as I could so that should a problem occur when the rig is in use that spare parts could be easily identified, sourced and replaced. Harris Performance participated in the development of the suspension, cutting the billet for the hub and bell crank in house.

    Overhang and lead have been discussed. It is true that when unladen the unit places the passenger forward of the sidecar wheel, however the outfit is designed to used with the luggage box full with the possibility of carrying soft luggage on top as well as carrying a spare front and rear wheel and tyres slung under the rear box. This evens up the weight distribution. The wheel is set 20% forward of the rear wheel on the bike.

    Inevitably we could change aspects of the design. But the actual sidecar works very well and I am very pleased to report that its great fun to ride.

    Thank you once again for your feed back. I guess it will not be to everyone's taste but it represents a great deal of work from guys who are all committed to the bike industry and also customers who are living the dream of seeing the world.

    Kind regards

    Stephen Crowder

    SBW
    Motorrad
    Hertford
    <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">33 Chambers Street</st1:address></st1:Street>
    Hertford
    Hertfordshire
    SG14 1PL
    www.sbwmotorrad-bmw.com
    Tel: 01992 583135
    Fax: 01992 554472
    #43
  4. Bobmws

    Bobmws Curmudgeon At Large

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,439
    Location:
    Same trailer, different park, FL
    Fixed.....



    #44
  5. FR700

    FR700 Banned

    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,512

    Thanks :thumb


    .
    #45
  6. FR700

    FR700 Banned

    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,512

    Welcome.


    As long as the people writing the cheque are happy with it , it doesn't matter what we plebs think.



    .
    #46
  7. DRONE

    DRONE Dog Chauffeur

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,199
    Location:
    Chambers Bay, WA
    Mr Crowder and all the folks at SBW Motorrad--

    Glad to learn that your new design will be used for serious globetrotting. Please do see if the new owners will make some action videos on rough terrain that you can post up at a later date so we can all see how it handles.

    I think it's great that you joined our forum just to post up more info about your fabulous creation. Welcome to the asylum and I hope you'll stick around and add to the general wisdom. The sidecar section here ("Hacks") is just a tiny corner of the Adventure Rider world. If you navigate around you'll discover tons of BMW-related info including airheads, oilheads, K bikes and F's. Much like UKGSER but with 200,000 members and alot more rubbish to sort. :lol3

    There are plenty of other BMW dealers on here, but most post up using anonymity because thrashing from the merks can be tiresome.

    Once again, welcome!
    #47
  8. Horton

    Horton Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Oddometer:
    447
    Location:
    Niederrhein
    I thing there is a lot of wasted space for the luggage, with this small aluminium box behind the sidecar. The second point is an old problem for all the sidecars. The passenger seat is to deep.The passenger will only see one side of the road. The seat looks saftey and comfortable. You couldn't lose your monkey. . .

    With the first bump, you are not able to miss, you know, the best way to survive as apassenger a rough rod conditions, he is able to stand up.

    But I think this points are not possible to come together.


    Anyway, I like the design. And the way you do the job. As far, as I see in the video. Then I look at my hack and start noiseless to snivel. . .
    [​IMG]
    #48
  9. Dickie

    Dickie Seasoned Sidecarist

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Oddometer:
    48
    Location:
    Northants, England
    SBW Motorrad, Stephen,
    well done for coming on and explaining your creation. Like most things sidecar, development costs make the project and any sales high end, due to low retail numbers. I like your chair but its way out of my league but maybe one day you never know. Keep up with the good work. Any new sidecar manufacturer on the market is a welcome sight in my eyes. Best of luck. I look forward to some reports on its performance from the new owners, if its possible.
    #49
  10. Sidecarjohn

    Sidecarjohn Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Oddometer:
    756
    Location:
    Yorkshire, England
    Stephen,

    Thanks for a comprehensive explanation about the SBW. It's all in the detail, and boy is there some detail. Like others it will be good to hear how things work out, plus an appraisal of what did, and didn't work.
    #50
  11. boxertwin

    boxertwin Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Oddometer:
    1,023
    Location:
    Idaho

    He's talking about me.
    #51
  12. Hairyjohn

    Hairyjohn Hairyjohn

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Oddometer:
    11
    Location:
    Coventry UK
    First post
    Just ordered a SBW after meeting the designer at the show, Mine though is being altered to match a Guzzi Stelvio , so less lights and GS stuff.
    I sidecare'd for about 17 years all over the UK and a bit of Europe with my last 3 wheeled trip to Spain for Moto Piston in 2003.
    Good to see little has changed among sidecar folks including distain for anything that cost more than used bucket, For the record I am far to old / fat and ugly to pose, intend to tour on the outfit for some good rides where my not to well wife who can sleep on the pillion will still be attached to the bike at the end.
    Hope its comes good as I have sold 4 bikes to get the chair
    HJ
    #52
  13. Sidecarjohn

    Sidecarjohn Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Oddometer:
    756
    Location:
    Yorkshire, England
    Hello,
    Have you adapted the Guzzi in any way for sidecar use ?

    As a postscript, you do realise that inmates will probably be waiting for reports on how your new outfit performs, good points and otherwise ?
    #53
  14. madeouttaglass

    madeouttaglass The AntiHarley

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Oddometer:
    3,652
    Location:
    The Lost Coast of California
    Welcome Hairyjohn,
    Please keep us posted on your latest toy. My sidecar rig also allows me to bring my wife along on longer rides as her bones just can't take 2 wheels for more than 30 minutes anymore.
    #54
  15. DRONE

    DRONE Dog Chauffeur

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
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    Location:
    Chambers Bay, WA
    Hairy--

    Yes, please start a new thread with lots of pics once the build gets underway. I for one am very interested to see a hacked Stelvio--subframe and mounting points especially. There are a few others here with fat wallets but mostly just cheap bastards. Nice to see somebody not afraid to spend some real money for a change!

    And welcome to the forum :D !!
    #55
  16. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Oddometer:
    4,163
    Location:
    Middleburg, Pa. (Snyder County)
    I think the response by Stephen Crowder was excellent. Thanks Stephen!

    The last few lines were:
    >>>Inevitably we could change aspects of the design. But the actual sidecar works very well and I am very pleased to report that its great fun to ride.

    Thank you once again for your feed back. I guess it will not be to everyone's taste but it represents a great deal of work from guys who are all committed to the bike industry and also customers who are living the dream of seeing the world.

    Kind regards

    Stephen Crowder <<

    Again excellent reply. I think, or hope, your words would reflect the stance from most of us that are in this business. All 'competitors' are still part of the whole. 'The Whole' being the sidecar community itself. Most of us Get this and work very well together. Nice outfit!!
    #56
  17. TouringDave

    TouringDave Tri Moto Veritas

    Joined:
    May 17, 2005
    Oddometer:
    7,124
    Location:
    Frankston, Vic, Aust.
    Well said, Claude. :clap
    #57
  18. Hairyjohn

    Hairyjohn Hairyjohn

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Oddometer:
    11
    Location:
    Coventry UK
    No mods yet as the chair is some months away. I am minded to look at making up some leading links or some kind of Hybrid front using the standard legs and a swing arm !? Also to fit a 17 inch front rim so that 1 tyre fits all, As my Stelvio is a 2010 model I think an auxiliary fuel tank needs to be looked at too.
    There is also a fair bit of work to do with Stephen at SBW to de GS it
    Its going to be good just wait and see
    HJ
    #58
  19. Hairyjohn

    Hairyjohn Hairyjohn

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Oddometer:
    11
    Location:
    Coventry UK
    Drone
    Don't worry once we get going I will be a posting. There are a few to build before mine. be nice to hear from other customers.

    Quick note on cost
    Its weird that folks who change there new but unremarkable dull car for another one every two or three years with horrendous loss are not considered to be rich or stupid ( is it the same in the states ) but if one invests there hard earned into something hand built and individual that will last for years means they have money to burn
    Funny old world eh
    #59
  20. DRONE

    DRONE Dog Chauffeur

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,199
    Location:
    Chambers Bay, WA
    This might be the most wisdom I've heard in a while. Got to use that with the wife!

    On the fuel situation, my local Guzzi dealer (Dave Richardson who wrote "Guzziology") told me that it would not take much to obtain a new Stelvio tank and retrofit it to the old Stelvio. Then if you added an aux tank as well you'd have great range.
    #60