Scored a Classic Today

Discussion in 'Trials' started by kanur, Oct 22, 2010.

  1. kanur

    kanur cu new er

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    SARACEN I've only saw a couple of these before and have no idea how many were made.

    I friend sent me a link to it on ebay knowing I'm a fan of the british kit bikes. When I realized I knew the seller I gave him a call and made a trade offer to him if it did not bring his reserve.:deal

    Well... it did not sell and we made a trade :clap :freaky :super

    If anyone knows the history of the Saracen bikes I would love to hear about it.

    [​IMG]
    #1
  2. Brewtus

    Brewtus Buffoonery, Inc.

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    Nice score! :thumb
    #2
  3. nevgriff64

    nevgriff64 Spelt with 2 ffs Super Moderator

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    Nice looking bike there kanur.. :tb
    #3
  4. roadholder

    roadholder Long timer

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    Looks good. That's a name I haven't heard of but seems to be a pretty good find. Nice shape. Sachs motor and looks like Ceriani forks. Rickman hubs?
    #4
  5. K1W1

    K1W1 Long timer

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    That looks like a nice find.
    I haven't seen or heard anything about Saracen bikes since probably the mid 1970's.

    There are references to and photos of Saracens in Carl Shipmans 1973 book "How to ride Observed Trials just for fun!" His daughter had one. He was based in New Mexico then so I guess that there were a few kicking around that area at the time.
    #5
  6. darmst6829

    darmst6829 Been here awhile

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    Fun! AHRMA classic class legal.

    "Classic: British kit-framed two-stroke machines up to model year 1974 with 175cc or smaller OEM engine, and Spanish 4-speeds to 250cc in original OEM frame."

    Good bike. Great class. <!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist-->
    #6
  7. kanur

    kanur cu new er

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    Thanks Guys.

    roadholder I am not sure what the forks are. The triple tree seems to be a Puch item the same as on a Dalesman trials bike I have.The hubs are R.E.H. the same as on a Penton/Wassell.

    K1W1 I have the Carl Shipman book and was scouring through it when I found out about this bike.

    darmst6829 I agree the AHRMA Classic class is a lot of fun. I have rode a lot of trials in it on my Penton/Wassell. I did like the class better before AHRMA changed the rules about the lines the bikes use. It used to be Novice rode 3, Intermediate rode 2, and expert rode 1.

    Is that your model #10? A friend of mine has one and in 2001 we were on a points chase in Classic class, with him riding the 3 line and me the 2 line. We each won our class and I even got a picture of me on my Penton on the cover of December 2001 Vintage Views.

    I have gotten away from vintage trials but this bike has peaked my interest. There is a local trial next week I think I may ride it in, the bike runs and works great.
    #7
  8. lamotovita

    lamotovita Ageing Adventurer

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    I would expect the forks to be REH also, your bike looks very original.
    If you can find a copy of Classic British Two Stroke Trials Bikes by Don Morley, it has avery good chapter on the Saracens, including a photo of a bike like yours being ridden by factory rider Jack Galloway (in white slacks).
    #8
  9. EvilClown

    EvilClown Reality show stunt double Super Moderator

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    Beautiful bike!:tb
    #9
  10. lamotovita

    lamotovita Ageing Adventurer

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    If I remember correctly the trials segment of On Any Sunday shows a rider on a Saracen.
    #10
  11. buls4evr

    buls4evr No Marks....

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    Yes, but does that 21 speed Sachs gearbox allow it to be legal for classic:D?
    #11
  12. darmst6829

    darmst6829 Been here awhile

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    Hi kanur,

    Its a 4 speed Matador bitsa. I wish it was a model 10!

    Dave
    #12
  13. Brewtus

    Brewtus Buffoonery, Inc.

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    Great book. Written about NMTA's early days. Some of the competitors in the book are still competing today! :thumb
    #13
  14. K1W1

    K1W1 Long timer

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    Don't forget that a lot of the technology in things like Puchs / Sachs and Pentons has all morphed into what is now KTM. many of those companies were very inter related.

    I'm glad I'm not the only one with a book shelf of 1970's Trials and Motorcycle books. I also have Carl Shipmans trail bike book as well as plenty of others.
    #14
  15. dhubbard422

    dhubbard422 Adventurer

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    There was a similar request on Trials Central...

    http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/23929-1968-saracen/

    Hi,
    ....the Saracen would undoubtably have had an 18" rear wheel.
    have a look at the the 1980 and 84 bikes I have put on the TC Garage forum under my profile. I have the older one rebuilt now, but suffereing a clutch problem, and the later one is just about ready to be reassembled.

    If you can get hold of a book called "Motorcycle Competition" edited by Deryk Wylde and published by Ariel Publishing (fax 0159 7870652) there is a 14 page article on the "Saracen Story" with a couple of good photo's of the early iron barreled bikes. Ironically it was a mix up on specification of iron / alloy barrels on a shipment to the USA importer that eventually took the company down.

    The book I mention above also has a full colour front cover showing the 1971 Scottish Saracen team of Jack Galloway, Steve Wilson and Jon Bliss with their bikes.

    Andy
    #15
  16. nsu max

    nsu max Been here awhile

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    Very cool ride! Congratulations:clap
    #16
  17. kanur

    kanur cu new er

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    Well..... I rode the Saracen in a local vintage trial Saturday and I have to say this is the best running Sachs powered trials bike I have ever rode and I have owned several Penton/Wassell trials.

    This thing just tractors along. I'm not sure what the big difference is. It has a Mikuni carb which I have never used and the head pipe is a smaller diameter.

    It has a couple ergo issues I need to correct, pegs are too high and the brake pedal is too short, but over all it worked pretty well :freaky
    #17
  18. lamotovita

    lamotovita Ageing Adventurer

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    I'd hate to see you modify the frame/footpegs on your bike, it truly is a classic.
    I have a Sherpa T (far past the point of collectability) that I've lowered the pegs on. It makes the bike more comfortable for me (I'm over 6 feet tall), but didn't really improve my scores. We have very little vintage competition here so I mostly ride intermediate level modern events.
    While standing on high pegs can feel awkward remember you do have something no modern bike has, a seat. Also, high pegs can keep the tops of your Wellies above the water line:D .
    [​IMG]
    #18
  19. kanur

    kanur cu new er

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    I don't believe I will need to alter the peg mounts. It's not real clear in the picture but the pegs have almost a 1 1/2" rise to them, a pair that come straight out should do the trick. Even if I changed the mounts it would be an improvment as they are clearly not stock and not very stellar.

    Nice looking Bultaco, I used to have a model 199 that had a rare alloy tank on it.
    #19
  20. derykwylde

    derykwylde n00b

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    Hi,

    Noticed your post about the Saracen trials models with the reference to the 'Competition Motor Cycle Reference Library - Volume 2' which I created and published way back when.

    Sadly I can't suggest where you could find a copy but I do still have my own reference copy - I also have my copy of the CD that went to the printers for them to feed through their electronic Printing Press so I am able to offer you a reprint service of the articles - not just photocopies of the pages but high quality gloss reprints of each page of the Saracen (or any other article from the 100 issues of Offroad Review that I created.)

    Alternatively I can supply prints of any of the photographs used in any of the books and magazines that I published, or help with anyone trying to publish any books or articles about classic European competition motor cycling.

    Just send your queries to derykwylde@gmail.com - but bear in mind that I am now retired and don't have an office full of helpers so responses probably won't be immediiate.

    If any one would like to see copies of the magazines and books, Brian Slark at the Barber Motor Museum has a full collection in his 'Reference' library.

    Cheers.:deal
    #20