Scottoiler lube or ATF and Oring chains?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by GO_OUTSIDE!, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. GO_OUTSIDE!

    GO_OUTSIDE! dirty hippie

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    I have an RK Xring chain that has thrown its orings in under 10,000 miles with no other signs of wear(stretching). The front sprocket has also worn down to nubs while the rear is beautiful.
    I have been using a Scottoiler with the recommended alternative lubricant of ATF fluid. It is set up to keep the chain wet but not throw oil everywhere.
    I am replacing the chain and sprockets today and am hoping to avoid having similar results.
    Does anyone have any input?
    If it helps, the chain the chain had 3 tight links from the beginning that never worked themselves out.
    #1
  2. Stan_R80/7

    Stan_R80/7 Beastly Gnarly

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    If one listens to what Scottoiler states, one drop per minute is the optimal rate. The one drop of oil per minute is applied to the rear sprocket just inside the gear ring. ATF is a substitute oil; I am considering 2-stroke oil in my Scottoiler. There is always the option of contacting Scottoiler and asking them about your configuration and how it should best work.
    #2
  3. GO_OUTSIDE!

    GO_OUTSIDE! dirty hippie

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    looking around the internet I am hearing rumors of ATF "rotting" and "swelling" orings and therefore being an unsuitable replacement for oring chains. I have contacted DID and am awaiting their reply.
    #3
  4. ohgood

    ohgood Long timer

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    just see here

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345397
    #4
  5. joexr

    joexr Banned

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  6. Stan_R80/7

    Stan_R80/7 Beastly Gnarly

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    Contacting RK to ask why their o-ring disintegrated from ATF would be a good idea also. Most o-rings are Buna-Nitrile and have good compatibility with ATF. But, if it seems the o-rings are dissolving or swelling then a different oil is needed. Good luck!
    #6
  7. BluByU

    BluByU Been here awhile

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    When I had a Scott oiler on my old ZX I filled it with 20w50. Heck it was a Kawasaki so having a spare bottle of oil on hand was not unusual as she liked to sip her share. O rings never rotted out and the chain life was fantastic. Although the back of the bike was a mess :puke2
    #7
  8. GO_OUTSIDE!

    GO_OUTSIDE! dirty hippie

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    I havent contacted RK but DID replied with "we have not tested the compatability of atf with our chains... use lube listed as safe for oring chains"
    #8
  9. ohgood

    ohgood Long timer

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    I scanned through a few pages, and didn't find a punchline.

    do you have a better resource ?
    #9
  10. HapHazard

    HapHazard Waiting for Gudenov

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    It's hard to imagine that ATF "ate" the O-rings -automatic transmissions have lots of O-rings in them, no?
    I don't use a Scottoiler, but I wouldn't lube any chain with ATF, though. It's very thin with low film strength.
    I've been using Maxima (or other similar) chain wax products on my street bikes for years, and never had any O-rings vanish.
    #10
  11. slidewayes

    slidewayes slidewayes

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    How dose any lube get past the O ring to the pin and the "ID" of the roler ,
    #11
  12. AviatorTroy

    AviatorTroy Long timer

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    I would be inclined to use some real oil, like Rotella or something cheap but known to be good.
    #12
  13. joexr

    joexr Banned

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    The pins are internally lubricated , hence the O-rings. Lubing is for the O-rings and the rollers. The rollers aren't sealed.
    #13
  14. joexr

    joexr Banned

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    Yeah , ME. He made a good attempt , there just wasn't any experience or knowledge behind it.
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  15. e.Rock

    e.Rock No Guts, No Story

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    I've been running ATF through my Scottoiler for I don't know how many thousands of miles... on the same chain. I always have mine set at the slowest drip rate.

    Have you ever cleaned your chain with a non-safe solvent, like brake kleen, or mineral spirits?
    #15
  16. ohgood

    ohgood Long timer

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    are we still talking about testing deformation of orings via different fluids (fairly simple) or something like bone reconstruction surgery, or maybe rocket science ?
    #16
  17. lnewqban

    lnewqban Ninjetter

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    The X-rings are more fragile than the O-rings, although they offer a better seal (double).
    With good result and for years, I have used ATF mixed with around a 10% of 80W-90 gear oil.

    Maybe an incorrect location of the points of delivery of the oil has been the cause of your problem.
    The drops should hit the X-rings directly, since those are the only things that need to be lubricated and conditioned in sealed chains.

    If the lubricant is delivered over the sides of the rear sprocket, only the rollers will receive it, leaving the sealing rings dry and exposed to high friction against the plates of the chain.

    It is unlikely that a chain that has not stretched yet causes damage to the teeth of any sprocket, unless that sticky lubricant over the rollers makes a grinding paste with dirt.
    The good thing about ATF is that tends to keep the surface of the rollers free of dirt.
    #17
  18. GO_OUTSIDE!

    GO_OUTSIDE! dirty hippie

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    Although I am using the scottoiler twinjector system delivering oil to both faces of the rear sprocket, as per scottoilers directions, the oil gets to the entire chain surface.
    This may have more to do with a daily dose of fine rock dust. The rollers have been reduced to nearly one half of their original width on many links.
    #18
  19. GO_OUTSIDE!

    GO_OUTSIDE! dirty hippie

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    I just got my answer from RK chains:
    "
    I just talked to our warranty department and they said yes the reason as to why all your x rings are coming off is most likely because of the ATF. ATF fluid is too thin and actually acts a mild degreaser and it will penetrate past our x ring seals and into the chain thus, ruining all the lubrication on the inside of your chain and causing heat and fiction. Also, as I’m sure you know some ATF can cause rubber to expand which would create an issue as well."

    Food for thought.
    #19
  20. lnewqban

    lnewqban Ninjetter

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    A long way to blame the consumer for not using the recommended "special" lubricant.

    My chain has been lubricated as explained above for more than 40K miles, showing no signs of measurable elongation or damaged seals.
    Maybe my ATF is "special".
    #20