Scottoiler lube or ATF and Oring chains?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by GO_OUTSIDE!, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. Stan_R80/7

    Stan_R80/7 Beastly Gnarly

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,666
    Location:
    VA
    #21
  2. Windwashed

    Windwashed n00b

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1
    Has anyone used chainsaw bar oil? Bailey's lumbering supply sells a product called Motion Lotion. It doesn't have detergents or seal conditioners but it is exceptionally "sticky."
    #22
  3. PeterW

    PeterW Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Oddometer:
    2,820
    Location:
    Gold Coast
    I've used ATF with good results for years. The reason to use ATF is that if you ride dirt or dusty conditions the dirt flings off rather than sticking and turning into grinding paste.

    Lube is needed to do three things, stop rust, keep the O-rings moist so they don't tear and provide some film to reduce the wear between chain rollers and the sprockets. ATF does that all that adequately without being a dirt trap.

    I suspect the OP's problem is scoring an old chain, but it is possible RK use a different rubber to the rest of the industry.

    Pete
    #23
  4. davesupreme

    davesupreme grand poobah

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,842
    Location:
    palm harbor, fla
    the directions for all the japanese chains i have used all recommended using gear oil for lube....
    #24
  5. HapHazard

    HapHazard Waiting for Gudenov

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,386
    Location:
    Central CT
    As a lad, back when the Earth's crust was still cooling, I used Oilzum Bar & Chain oil on my minibike and then Ducati 100. :gerg
    Although it was very "sticky" as well, it flung off wildly, making a mess, and attracted dirt like flies to sh*t.
    The biodegradable canola oil aspect is interesting, but progress really has been made in motorcycle purpose-directed chain lube.

    If you want to try it out, please let us know your experience. Hopefully, you have a chainsaw to use the rest of the oil if your motorcycle results are unsatisfactory.
    #25
  6. GO_OUTSIDE!

    GO_OUTSIDE! dirty hippie

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Oddometer:
    302
    Location:
    SF Bay Area California
    You think that was a along way? You should see the email reply from RK when I quoted some of the pro atf replies from this thread! Wow!
    I'll save you the reading and just say when RK means atf is a penetrant they mean it will swell the orings causing them to break and thereby allowing the atf to wash out the grease. :rofl
    Ill see how this DID works out me.
    #26
  7. trumpet

    trumpet Group W Bench

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,509
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Been using "used" motor oil thinned with Marvel Mystery oil. Have had no problems with the Scotoiler and excellent longevity from the chain and sprockets.
    #27
  8. pdxmotorhead

    pdxmotorhead Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2012
    Oddometer:
    886
    Location:
    Portland OR
    Which kind of ATF ? Type F? Or Delvac? Or ?? There are significant differences in thier viscosity and behaviour. They are all in the Hydraulic
    fluid family which will raise heck with some rubber compounds.. YMMV.
    They also have drastically different friction modifiers.. I'd buy 0W20 in the cheapest form available..

    Dave
    #28
  9. DSM8

    DSM8 Where fun goes to die....

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,091
    Location:
    Glendora, Ca
    I have been using ATF as chain lube for the last 80K+ miles on my DL-650.

    I get about 30K out of the chains but when they do wear the manner in which they degrade if very strange.

    The last chain I just replaced I spent some time investigating and discovered a few things.


    • Like others have said the ATF does NOT affect the O-Rings.
    • Due to the high level of detergents and the thin viscosity the chain stays very clean and free of grit

      This is the interesting part
    • All of the grease in the chain between the pins and the rollers is gone, instead what is there is a very thin oil like substance.
    I beleive what is happening here are the o-rings allow the ATF to work past them into the area that is occupied by the factory grease. Due to the high detergent and cleaning ability of the ATF this is broken down in a thin non shock absorbing material unlike the grease that was there.


    What I found in my chains was minimal wear of the sprockets front and rear. BUT the pins were work to the point of it sounded like the chain was crunchy, but NONE of the rollers were damaged or missing.


    Personally I am moving away from ATF and back to oil (I am using Rotella synth for now) to see if this makes any difference. For reference here are some details of how the bike is treated.


    - DL650 wit over 110K on the original power-train

    - 90 mile commute each day round trip to work
    Stop and go freeway traffic both directions.
    - Lube is applied to the chain via the chain oiler every morning when I leave the garage. I do not apply for the ride home. It gets about 30CC of oil per application
    - Bike is ridden year round in all condition with only a top box for the helmet, not luggage, racks or extra weight.
    -Stock gearing


    Dunno if this helps but just throwing in my .02
    #29
  10. Stan_R80/7

    Stan_R80/7 Beastly Gnarly

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,666
    Location:
    VA
    The topic certainly has entertainment value with plenty of contradictions and conflicting opinions; much like any oil thread. Here is yet another thread heralding WD-40 as the chain lubricant of choice. Which, if you believe some of the o-ring chain manufacturers does seem to apply since several state to only clean the chain with kerosene (i.e. the primary component of WD-40): http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7368515

    If I can get 20,000+ miles without any maintenance other than adding ATF to the oiler - that's good enough for me. YMMV.
    #30
  11. GO_OUTSIDE!

    GO_OUTSIDE! dirty hippie

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Oddometer:
    302
    Location:
    SF Bay Area California
    All I know is my new chain made my bike faster and shift better! But... I have lost the effect of my rear brake. I must have contaminated the pads somehow.
    Maybe I got a bad chain from RK, the chain had three tight links from day one that I never was able to loosen up, but this mew chain seems un-naturally smooth!:clap
    #31
  12. Foot dragger

    Foot dragger singletracker

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
    Oddometer:
    12,970
    Location:
    chico,just below rag dump(nor-cal)
    Every O-ring chain made,on the box,it says use lube made for 0-ring chains. Doesnt say use ATF,or engine oil,or gearbox oil.

    This confuses some people. "Use Lube made For O-ring Chain. " Simple yet can be taken many ways. I guess.

    O-ring chains have grease in them from the factory,I buy good o-ring chains,use Maxima 0-ring chain lube,the chains go around 25,000 miles or more with next to no mess anywhere.

    Chain oiler is old school and seems to make a mess,attract dirt.
    #32
  13. ohgood

    ohgood Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Oddometer:
    3,293
    Location:
    alabama
    maybe I need a new thread started...

    but I'm wondering, for the high life longevity chain enjoyers:

    do you lube before or after ?
    #33
  14. Ranger Ron

    Ranger Ron Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Oddometer:
    771
    Location:
    Sonoran Desert, AZ
    I tend to agree. I've used various ones over the years and was never quite satisfied with them.

    So, I made my own electronically controlled oiler. It uses gear oil which has some attractive properties for chains and rollers, namely high viscosity and high shear strength.

    My oiler uses a PIC microcontroller. It measures the ambient temperature and adjusts the solenoid "on" time to dispense one single drip per timing cycle regardless of temperature.

    The unit uses very little oil, but keeps the chain and rollers moist with virtually no fling-off unless conditions are very windy. At this time I have it set to dispense one drip every 10 minutes.

    The oil reservoir is about 20" of 1/2" tubing.

    Here is the solenoid and part of the reservoir. The circuit board is under the seat. The dispensing nozzle is recycled from a Scott Oiler.

    [​IMG]

    Ron :D
    #34
  15. jon_l

    jon_l Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,662
    Location:
    Collingwood, Ontario
    Lots of difference between brake cleaner and mineral spirits. Mineral spirits is about as mild a solvent as you can buy. If it causes any harm to a chain or o-rings, I'd like to hear about it, because it is all I have ever used. Old dish brush with min spirits for a light scrub, dry with rag, spray with chain lube.
    #35
  16. Commuter Boy

    Commuter Boy Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Oddometer:
    2,962
    Location:
    Burnaby, BC
    I used to use chainsaw bar oil in my Scottoiler for years. It comes in summer weight and winter weights, stuck well to the chain, and extended the life tremendously. It also seemed to be close in consistency to the Scottoiler brand lubricant.

    The Scottoiler died after several hundred thousand KM's on it's third bike. Never got around to replacing it with another one.

    I'd expect ATF was too thin and penetrated into the rollers causing premature wear.
    #36