Scrap Metal was an Indian

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by robberst, Oct 29, 2011.

  1. robberst

    robberst Been here awhile

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    I got on a tangent there and forgot to ask my second question.

    My connecting rod small ends do not have bushings. The aluminum is just milled and reamed. Is this normal? The Hitchcock parts list shows a bushing.
    #21
  2. caponerd

    caponerd Kickstart Enthusiast

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    The timing sprocket on the crankshaft will yield to a proper sprocket puller. I borrow one from a friend who maintains a variety of engines, from cars and trucks down to garden equipment. The one I've used has three claws on it that are tightened onto the sprocket with a kind of conical fitting that screwed down over the arms of the claws to force them to stay under the sprocket. I think even harbor frieght has one that will work.
    Sometimes, you have to apply a good amount of pressure then tap it with a brass hammer to make it pop off its taper.

    I've never seen a small end bush. I've got several sets of rods out in my garage, and none of them have bushings.

    The big ends have replaceable plain bearing shells, available in two sizes beyond standard to allow up to two regrinds.
    I've heard that the timing side rod journal is ground .0005" tighter (larger) than the drive side to help prevent oil pressure loss on the drive side as the bearings wear with use.
    On the unmolested engines I've looked at, the timing side rod does feel tighter. However, when I had my Interceptor crank reground years ago, I was unaware of this, and the crankshaft guy didn't mention it, so I assume both journals were ground the same size, and no ill effect has ensued after all these years. You're probably safe if you change the oil regularly.
    #22
  3. robberst

    robberst Been here awhile

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    Not much new to report. Everything is apart on the original (seized) motor. Just been working on cleaning parts and making making up a list of required parts.
    My Lucas SR2 magnetos are in tough shape. The secondary coils are open. Anyone know of a source for parts. Hitchcocks has most of the parts, but no coils.
    Also I'd like to keep one original and ideally i'd like to fit an electronic ignition into the other. I see kits for sale to do this for other lucas mags, but not the sr2.
    #23
  4. caponerd

    caponerd Kickstart Enthusiast

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    Lucas mags are rebuildable. (in spite of the bad rap, at least Lucas equipment isn't throw away junk like modern black boxes)
    There's a guy who rewinds Lucas mag coils. Don't remember his name, but I think he's a member of britbike.com, and possibly that Royal Enfield forum I gave you a link to.
    He might also be on the yahoo list. For sure, someone on one of those three resources can put you in touch with him.
    #24
  5. qiuliumsmith

    qiuliumsmith n00b

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    After having the look of all those anime and photos or we can say all those anime and photos couldn't satisfied me till yet i'm still saying "The Scrap Metal Was Not An Indian".
    blood sugar monitor
    #25
  6. robberst

    robberst Been here awhile

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    I'm not sure exactly what that last post means, but I suppose, "the scrap metal was a royal enfield"

    Anyhow

    I've been working a little here and there on my projects. I employed the use of the parts "dishwasher" at work and cleaned up most of my parts. Under the grime and goo were a couple surprises.

    [​IMG]

    I'm thinking the drive chain must have broken at some point. The case was broken in the oil tank, then a weld repair was made.

    Today I disassembled the spare engine and split the cases. Here's what I found.

    [​IMG]

    lots of metal in the bottom of the cases. The connecting rod on the right is very bent and left lots of metal on the crank journal. Still seeing a few differences in the two engines. this engine does not have shell or babbitt type bearings. Just the aluminum rod directly on the crank. Also, the oil return pipes are different.

    Oh, one other thing.......Is there any difference between exhaust and intake cams? Both camshafts are stamped "ex" on the engine that doesn't have to have the cases split to remove them.
    #26
  7. robberst

    robberst Been here awhile

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    Well I've been traveling for work, and busy with other stuff lately. Might be a while before I get back to the Enfield.
    I also have my alfa romeo engine competely tore down and it's a bit higher priority.
    #27
  8. robberst

    robberst Been here awhile

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    hrmmmphh
    I see it's been just over a year since I said anything. there isn't much to say. I've done very little beside cleaning up pieces, painting and collecting/fabricating parts. I'm nowhere near putting it back together yet. the cylinders and heads are at the local engine machine shop.

    My question for today

    What is the yellow coating inside the cases? I would guess it's some sort of sealant. I have to remove it all because it's flaking off, but should I replace it and what with?

    [​IMG]
    #28
  9. Garbln

    Garbln Been here awhile

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    If I had to guess, that yellow stuff is "glyptal" (spelling?) it used to be used to coat the inside of cast crankcases etc. It would seal porous castings to keep them from seeping oil. Hot rod engine builders used it also so the oil would run down the crankcase walls faster to the sump or pan. It's still available and works as well as it ever did. It's probably one of the first "miracle" coatings developed maybe in the 40's?
    #29
  10. Tosh Togo

    Tosh Togo Long timer

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    Ding ding ding... we have a winner!. http://www.eastwood.com/glyptal-red-brush-on-1-qt.html

    The rest of the thread's just as good. :1drink
    #30
  11. robberst

    robberst Been here awhile

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    Thanks.
    I'll order up a can of glyptal. I still learn something new every day.
    #31
  12. caponerd

    caponerd Kickstart Enthusiast

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    Hey, nice to see this thread revived.
    I missed your last question: Royal Enfield used an exhaust cam for the intake on high performance engines.
    There was also an intake cam sprocket used for improved performance which had the woodruff keyway cut to provide advanced intake timing. This sprocket was marked with an "A" stamped on it.
    The Interceptors were supposed to be available in three states of tune; the lowest used the original intake and exhaust cams, the middle one used two exhaust cams, and the highest state used the two exhaust cams as well as the advanced intake timing.
    It' s possible that some of the 700cc Indian models had similar tunings.

    Oh, and I rebuilt my Interceptor engine with no ill effects without re-coating the inside. I didn't know any better back then. I'd do it differently next time.

    Btw, a repair in the oil tank due to a broken drive chain is apparently pretty common, I have two old crankcases with similar patches welded on.
    #32
  13. robberst

    robberst Been here awhile

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    I checked my intake cam sprocket. There is no "A" stamped.

    I'm waffling about using the glyptal now. Some say its great some say it's just something to peel and plug oil ways.

    I'm always waffling though. I seem to have motorcycle ADD. I can't seem to focus on one thing at a time. Around 2004 I got frustrated with commuting on an old bike and the constant fiddling to keep it running, and bought a Suzuki DL650 V-strom to commute The last two years it has been as troublesome as an old bike, but without the cool factor. It needs an engine overhaul. A 2000 Moto Guzzi V11 has come up for sale in my area, perhaps that would be a good commuter. Probably I need to follow Thoreau and simplify.
    #33
  14. caponerd

    caponerd Kickstart Enthusiast

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    :nod

    The same thing happened to me. I bought a brand new Aprilia Caponord so I'd have a modern bike for long trips and commuting.
    Worked out great for the first three years, then one by one, the various problems they talked about on the Aprilia Forum started happening to mine.
    A long list, mostly electrical problems related to flakey connectors, and a few weak components.
    The only thing good is that the V-twin Rotax engine is reputed to be nearly indestructible, and it shows no sign of problems, but due to various electrical issues, cost/availability of some replacement parts, it's probably spent more time sitting unusable than any other bike I've owned, and that includes my Royal Enfield and a BSA. Compared to my airhead BMW's the record has been awful.
    #34
  15. robberst

    robberst Been here awhile

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    Although I have been absent. I have been busy.

    I've cleaned and primed many parts.
    Today I ran up to the machine shop and picked up some finished parts. This is better than Christmas. :happay

    [​IMG]

    Cylinders were bored for .040 oversized pistons. This was necessary for rust and pitting from formerly stuck rings.

    The heads got new guides, valves. The left heads on both engines had damaged spark plug holes. The machinist took the best one and had a friend weld the hole shut, then recut the hole and put in an insert. It turned out pretty nice.

    [​IMG]

    New pistons and rings, of course. The crank was just polished and the connecting rods had the threads repaired.

    I need to buy new main bearings, rod bearings and a gasket set and I'll put it back together. Oh, I scrubbed, washed, boiled the case halves, but I'm going to paint on glyptal.

    This may be all the work I do on it for a while. I have to get the engine together and well oiled, but I also have the engines apart in my V-strom and CT70.

    Just putting pictures on now and thought it'd be a great idea to organize my pictures, that messed up the links.......boy am I an idiot.
    #35
  16. robberst

    robberst Been here awhile

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    I've finally managed to collect all the parts necessary to assemble the engine. I took the crankshaft back to the machine shop and had them turn the connecting rod journals down .010" undersize for new plain bearings.

    I think it was a couple weeks ago now, I went back to pick it up. The machinist for some unknown reason didn't want to remove the crank plugs. He said he was afraid he wouldn't be able to find a plug to put back it. I had to take matters into my own hands. After removing the snap rings, first I tried blowing a plug out with air pressure, but that was futile. So I pounded a center punch into the middle of one and popped it out. Then the other side I just pushed out. It was completely full of sludge and powdered oil. ( on a side note: The 1956 has drilled oil passages with small threaded plugs in them.) At work I have a CNC machined for cutting out Aircraft Instrument panels. I cut out two plugs out of .100" 2024T3 aluminum about .002" bigger than the hole. Pounded them into the crank and refitted the snap rings.

    [​IMG]


    Hope this won't be a problem. I'm sure many other things are bound to fail before this though.

    Next up new bearings:

    I bought new main bearings from Baxter Cycle. The roller bearing was a FAG and the ball bearing ZVL

    My wife wasn't thrilled about this, but into the oven when the crank cases
    to 200 degrees F.

    [​IMG]

    The bearings went in pretty easily with a a bit of pounding.

    [​IMG]

    I decided against using glyptal on the cases. The coating in them was pealing badly. A couple cycles in the parts dishwasher at work and it all came right off. I removed all the oil galley plugs and blew them out.
    #36
  17. robberst

    robberst Been here awhile

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    Next up: New connecting rod bearings. I had to file the backside of the anti-spin tab slightly for it to fit in the rod. I set the bolt torque and adjusted washers to get the cotter pin holes to line up. The manual says .005" is about 1/8 of turn. That was helpful and accurate.



    [​IMG]


    I stopped by the local yama/kawa/Honda shop and picked up a tube of yamabond......(4 or 5 I can remember now) to seal the case halves. Together it went.

    [​IMG]

    New/old piston and rings from Baxter cycle. .040" oversized. I'm pretty sure this box of parts has sat on the shelf longer than I've lived.

    [​IMG]


    Then on with the freshly bored cylinders. These are from the 1956 engine as they were in much better shape, although the right cylinder has a broken cooling fin.



    [​IMG]

    Looks like it was Yamabond 4, that's what the young mechanic at Yamaha shop recommended.
    #37
  18. vtwin

    vtwin Air cooled runnin' mon

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    Glad to see an update to this project.:D
    #38
  19. robberst

    robberst Been here awhile

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    I installed new copper head gaskets. The Indian service manual mentions using some sort of jointing compound on the copper head gasket, while the Royal Enfield manual I have says nothing. As part of the modification to improve engine breathing and oil leakage I put a threaded plug in the oil port that is sealed by the head gasket.

    I did not use any sort of sealant on the head gasket.

    [​IMG]



    A bit of time and assembly passed between these two pictures.
    I could not find woodruff keys for the cam gears in all my boxes of stuff. So I found the closest thing I could at the autoparts store and trimmed them down to fit.
    I cleaned and blew out the external oil lines and put them on.
    I double checked the point gap in the magneto, then put the mag. on and set the timing.

    [​IMG]

    Next I lapped the oil pumps cleaned everything up, lubricated and assembled the shaft, pumps and put the timing cover on.

    [​IMG]



    There are a few little details to sort out now. I'm missing one timing cover screw, I need to reassemble a carburetor and I need to find spark plugs and assemble spark plug wires, but essentially the engine is together. It may be a while before the engine is running, so as I assembled the engine I heavily lubricated everything with a mixture of oil and STP. This is a common procedure in aircraft engines. Thought it would work well here too.

    Now what's next? I've been waiting to get the engine back together to tear into a transmission. Now I might wait on that. It was full of oil still and seems to spin and shift well.

    I ordered stainless steel spokes. I've never laced a wheel before, but I think that's what I'll try next.
    #39
  20. groop

    groop So much to ponder

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    Fantastic project. Love the updates
    #40