Serious Design Flaw: Super Enduro!

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by Yellow Pig, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to asphalt!

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    +2


    I see the 690 has this same issue. Why in the world they dont put a small subframe for a skid plate on these dirt bikes is beyond me.
    #21
  2. mountain eagle

    mountain eagle terrorist

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    Hmm, costs less than the black dog one..... Says Grand Total $331.80 shipped.............

    Guard it skid plate....

    Good thing I've not bothered to get anything beyond stock as of yet. Also good that I've not done that much real off road with it too......
    #22
  3. offworlder

    offworlder Been here awhile

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    What about a wrap around brace that (the plate mounts to that) mounts to the "X" shaped engine mounts, as they're the closest support structure ?
    #23
  4. Misery Goat

    Misery Goat Positating the negative Super Moderator

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    You can't go wrong with this bash plate imo. I have absolutely punished mine and it hasn't moved and it's saved my clutch cover too. We have a big crew of SE riders in the valley here and every one of us who used the BD plate got bent radiator mounts. Not so with other bash plates. The design flaw is not with KTM.
    #24
  5. David P.

    David P. Been here awhile

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    That is one of the first issues I addressed when I acquired my SE back in 2007. I built an aluminium bracket that removed the connection between rad and tank and simply held in the rad against the frame in the lower brackets. Also removed the bracket to the oil tank altogether.

    Even if you don't remove it, the rubber bushes holding the oil tank will give way after a few years and make impacts worse and worse, they were one of my normal check-ups during service.

    I've beaten the crap out of that BD during many rallies and hard enduro sessions and trust it with my life!
    #25
  6. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    Ah, the curse of a trellis frame! I learned to live with it and avoid logs and big rocks. Sand doesn't seem to bother it much, even when clipping whoops. Far from ideal for sure. I excused the 690 from ever being on my "serious" off road list for this reason among a few others.
    #26
  7. pfdskipper

    pfdskipper Westside Trash

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    I have been meaning to attend to this situation for some time. With all of these warnings about the BD bashplate floating around, my sense of urgency to attend to my "impending event" just went to level 7.

    No need to re-invent the wheel. Your alteration sounds pretty thorough and effective. Could you post up some picks of your brackets?

    Many thanks to you in advance!!!
    #27
  8. hilslamer

    hilslamer 2XRedheadedstepchild

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    It's not a design flaw at all, it's just not designed to be outright abused. I don't know what you hit, but with both ends fully bottomed and the tires flattened out even the BD skid plate still has ~1.5" clearance on flat ground. You probably bottomed both ends with rocks or other undulations between the wheels. The "shock block" probably prevented what would have been much more damage by buffering any further hinging of the plate about the rear mount bolt axis into the radiator/forward mounts.

    While the mount points are questionable for that kind of load, you are going to find a lot of other "design flaws" if you keep putting the bike through circumstances like that and not noticing the noise or the carnage beneath you. I don't mean to sound callous, but IMO you are expecting a bit much from both the bike and the skid plate, stock or not, to be landing on whatever you did that hard(and most likely, multiple times).

    Look into much stiffer springs(especially forksprings - go with ~.64kg/mm or more(stock is .59)) if you want to take an SE skyward consistently and land on flat ground, and expect not to end up in this scenario again with any skid plate installed. More bottoming resistence/progressivity in the suspension will help more than you might think, although it will still bottom somewhere and you will still need to be more consious of where/how you are landing.You will also find that the rear bumpstop is going to have a very short lifespan if you are bottoming it that hard and that consistently.

    Another tip is to always flat land with an SE (or moreso, an Adventure) rear wheel first, with a little bit of power on, so that the chassis "rolls into the landing" instead of expecting both ends to just absorb all of the load. You just can't hide ~375+your weight lbs of suspended weight when it is plummeting to earth, and springs truly stiff enough to jump and flat land one would be unbearable to ride on over chatter, crossgrain and loose roly-poly rocks etc.
    #28
  9. hilslamer

    hilslamer 2XRedheadedstepchild

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    BTW >> Send your radiator to Mylers:

    I have had them fix stuff I thought was not possible and it comes back looking almost new and working just as good. Cheap, and about a day turnaround.
    #29
  10. Foot dragger

    Foot dragger singletracker

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    Yah,its not KTM's design flaw,they didnt build that plate. That's amazing to bolt a skidplate to a oil reservoir. Having a dirt going bike with an oil reservoir under the engine is a excersize in hope.
    #30
  11. hilslamer

    hilslamer 2XRedheadedstepchild

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    I think someone else said that the oil tank could take an IED hit, and this is why KTM built it this way. It's a structural holding tank as well as a means of cooling; it serves three purposes with the same component. Fuel and oil tanks on aircraft, trophy trucks and F1 cars are the same way. Done right, it's structure first, tank second and in the airflow/painted black, cooler third...and KTM has achieved this.

    There is no place else practical to put the oil tank, that is in the airflow(dry sump cooling) and is practical to make a simple tank to do. If you can find another place to put that much oil at crankcase level on the bike that is any less vulnerable, send a letter to KTM, and see if they hire you on as their latest head engineer. It's there for a reason and quite honestly, if you break the tank or land on the skidplate so hard that it breaks the oil tank, you've likely got a lot bigger issues to worry about by then(and afterward).
    #31
  12. LoFlow

    LoFlow Long timer

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    Before you get all excited. I think what people are trying to say is, It's not a good design to have a floating mount in the rear and have the plate solidly mounted to the oil tank. And then leave the motor mounting completely out of the equation which KTM used on the stock plate.

    Now if one wants to modify a BD one as some have done, well that's fine, fabricate away. But there are alternatives out there. Geez.
    #32
  13. Misery Goat

    Misery Goat Positating the negative Super Moderator

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    bingo.
    #33
  14. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to asphalt!

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    I appreciate the tips Tim, but I have been riding it like this for 4/5 years without issues. The bike has been re-sprung and re-valved by SuperPlush for my riding weight and style.

    I must have hit a rock (no major dings in the skid plate) or more likely a rise in the trail.

    I don't plan on altering my riding habits and curbing my fun, I'll just have to pay to play.

    I still think KTM could have done a better job on the skid-plate design by incorporating a smaller removable sub-frame that is not connected to the oil tank or the radiator. That is just silly.

    Another tip is to always land rear wheel first, with a little bit of power on, so that the chassis "rolls into the landing" instead of expecting both ends to just absorb all of the load.

    This is a good tip and something I always do. If you land and do not have any power applied the rear wheel acts a a brake and forces the front suspension to dive along w/ the rear to squat --> NOT GOOD.

    Thanks for all the input guys. Looks like I have a G-IT on the way.
    #34
  15. mattc

    mattc Been here awhile

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    Wish I would have known this before I ordered my BD plate. Now, how to fix it without buying something different?

    Saw somewhere, after reading this thread, of someone who attached the 'wings' of the BD plate to the long motor mount bolt with what looked like some steel straps bent to shape. He had posted the length of the new bolt needed.
    #35
  16. jonz

    jonz Miles are my mantra

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    I read this thread this morning. After, I removed the BD skid plate to do an oil change. The right side lower bolt in the bracket holding the oil tank was sheared off. Hmmmmm. The radiator was not bent thankfully. I don't even remember any big hits since I last had the skid plate off a couple months ago.

    This gave me a chance to check out the new Harbor Freight store in town, and I got some left hand drill bits and some easy outs. Even with my swamp cooler, the garage is still a little gruesome so I'll probably wait for tomorrow morning to pull the bolt out.
    #36
  17. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to asphalt!

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    Good luck getting the bolt out and not messing up the oil tank.
    #37
  18. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    A good reason for a custom underseat oil tank!
    #38
  19. PowerCell

    PowerCell Manufacture

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    That's just crazy talk... :lol3



    .
    #39
  20. dogsslober

    dogsslober No neck tie, Ti neck

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    And a crazy skid plate
    #40