Serious Design Flaw: Super Enduro!

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by Yellow Pig, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. traveltoad

    traveltoad Aaron S

    Joined:
    May 8, 2002
    Oddometer:
    6,769
    Location:
    San Fernando Valley
    G-iT on order... thank your the info guys!
    #41
  2. mattc

    mattc Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    629
    Location:
    West Baton Rouge

    From where? I thought they were out of stock.
    #42
  3. traveltoad

    traveltoad Aaron S

    Joined:
    May 8, 2002
    Oddometer:
    6,769
    Location:
    San Fernando Valley
    That is true... from what I have been told, they are gone.
    #43
  4. mookymoo

    mookymoo Mookish Mook

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,399
    Location:
    Either UK or Australia ...
    While the 3-point fastening of the GiT plate is more rigid than the floating BD (and anectdotally that seems to make a difference ), the fundamental issue IMO is that you have a soft (metallurgically speaking) Aluminium bash plate with no structural support from the bike at the front.... and a very heavy bike. Any big hit will bend the plate, and move the oil tank, and bend the rad.

    Albeit on the adv, my Alu bash plate took a direct hit when the front wheel dropped off a ledge into a hole. Bike bottomed on the ledge. Very un-dramatic - didn't even interrupt riding rhythm. But it bent the plate like a piece of cheese.
    And if I thought I underestimated the impact, it took just one(1) blow with the 10lb hammer to straighten it.

    The only sure solution is to relocate the oil tank & mount the bash plate to the frame/engine mounts.
    It's been done - can't remember who now... ;)
    #44
  5. dogsslober

    dogsslober No neck tie, Ti neck

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,671
    Location:
    Morgan Hill Ca
    The only sure solution is to relocate the oil tank & mount the bash plate to the frame/engine mounts.
    It's been done - can't remember who now... ;)[/QUOTE]

    Your thinking of Power Cells SE
    #45
  6. Dustodust

    Dustodust Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,422
    Location:
    Hillsboro Oregon
    and while we are on the subject ; why is the top of the motor at the heads not mounted to the frame ? ( there are mount threads cut )

    and why does no one make some rails with a plate between them that clamp on from the truss near the steering head that run under the motor like a cradle to form true engine protection ?

    and why does the headlight reflect light not just forward but upward in front of the bike where it is not needed blinding you in fog or dust ?

    and why is the sidestand mounted to the motor ?

    and why is the frame so wide at the steering head that it makes it so difficult to maneuver in tight off road situations ?

    why !

    why !

    why !
    #46
  7. hilslamer

    hilslamer 2XRedheadedstepchild

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,787
    Location:
    Chch, EnZed
    If you have been airing out your SE or any other 400+lb bike for 4-5 years on any sort of a regular schedule, perhaps you should measure the spring rates again and consider a suspension oil change on ~30-40 hour intervals. That's at a minimum. The springs and suspension valving shims, despite having been SuperPlushed, are likely badly fatigued and freshening them all up will mean more than you might think if you have not already. Very few people credit springs with fatigue unless they fail entirely, which is a major oversight and especially in the case of an SE suspension spring or shim.

    Keep an eye on the headstock of the frame for cracks, too; they fatigue just the same. Same goes for the upper shock mount and footpeg mounts. I have no idea how hard you are re-entering the atmosphere on your SE but it sounds like this may just be the first of a long string of fatigue-life issues that cannot possibly be construed as "design flaws" in my eyes.

    Lastly, I don't think that you got my earlier comment: the oil tank IS the "subframe"(structural element). If you are bottoming the skid plate hard enough that you are encountering what you have already, think of what happened to the radiator as the "fuse" in the system and avoid the situation. You cannot possibly expect ANY skid plate to take the full brunt of the suspended weight of you and the bike from free-fall and not either fold up itself or transmit the loads to other members, be they radiators or not, without some sort of failure that absorbs the energy of the impact.



    So...what fails in that case with a similar impact?



    Because TOO much rigidity is a detriment, unless you want to feel each and every jolt that the wheels and suspension cannot soak up. Look at an SXF versus and XCF, and not the lack of the headstay(despite machining on the frame/cylinder heads for such) and the explanation is before you...some flex and "give" is part of the tuning of the motorcycle, part of the "suspension," so-to-speak...


    Why have so many people raced, rallied and ridden these bikes far faster and longer than most and yet not encountered failures as a result of any of these "flaws?" I can only suggest an answer: because they are more than likely conscious of them and work/ride around the "problems." ANY bike has weaknesses and vulnerabilities; you have to know them and ride around them to be a truly good rider. Expecting complete indestructability out of any motorcycle is simply not realistic; even a KLR650 can be hurt somehow. If you bottom the skidplate of any modern motocross bike hard enough, you can expect something to give - frame, engine mounts, etc. This is not a "flaw," it is the result of abuse beyond design margins.
    #47
  8. BIG-E

    BIG-E AKA; Mongo-E

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,302
    Location:
    Phoenix, Arizona
    "Out of stock"

    Does this mean they are going to make more?? Does anyone have one to sell? Does anyone know where a portly guy can get one? (ok, a fat guy)

    Thanks, Eric.

    Hi-Ya-Tim.
    #48
  9. traveltoad

    traveltoad Aaron S

    Joined:
    May 8, 2002
    Oddometer:
    6,769
    Location:
    San Fernando Valley
    I can't say 100% for sure, but based on my email conversation over the last couple days with the Adv Spec guys... it seems they are now gone for good.
    #49
  10. BIG-E

    BIG-E AKA; Mongo-E

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,302
    Location:
    Phoenix, Arizona
    I have been in touch with a member here, LAKEMONSTER, and he is making a run of 12 or so for the SE, his design looks really good and I am just about to pull the trigger with him. His plate mounts at 2 points and has the oil tank bolts but doesn't relie on them at all. He sent me some pictures, but I can't seem to get them to post. I sent them to KTMSER maybe he can post them?

    Thanks Guy's.
    #50
  11. traveltoad

    traveltoad Aaron S

    Joined:
    May 8, 2002
    Oddometer:
    6,769
    Location:
    San Fernando Valley
    If not... I can.
    #51
  12. v8toilet

    v8toilet Nothing to see here.

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,738
    Location:
    Northwest U.S.
    I'm not going to advocate for or against a 'stronger' skid plate.

    Something in the machine has to give when there is a significant impact. I agree that the radiator is probably not an ideal place for a 'crumple-zone'. While a skid plate mounted to more rigid points on the bike will stand up to more than one mounted to the oil tank, what part will fail when the hit is too big? I don't have the answer but something somewhere is going to break, the question is where will it fail?

    If the engine mounts take the shock are we risking revisiting the side-stand issue with cracked cases? When and if the 'better' designed plate fails or causes damage will it be a design flaw?

    All that aside I banged my BDCW skidplate this weekend hard on the same water trough deals Yellow Pig damaged his on and I cringed and then forced myself to slow down.... :cry

    I will look at the G-It and Adv-Spec though as this mounting has always bothered me.
    #52
  13. mattc

    mattc Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    629
    Location:
    West Baton Rouge
    I have bought some strips of 1" x 1/8"steel and an going to reinforce my BDCW plate like was shown earlier in the thread. These will add some rigidity but still be able to give enough to not do any harm elsewhere.
    #53
  14. traveltoad

    traveltoad Aaron S

    Joined:
    May 8, 2002
    Oddometer:
    6,769
    Location:
    San Fernando Valley
    BIG-E's photos.

    Good looking bash plate!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This last one looks like and Adv bash plate... but the engine mount points should be the same.
    [​IMG]
    #54
  15. BIG-E

    BIG-E AKA; Mongo-E

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,302
    Location:
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Thanks TT!

    The first 2 are before the powder coating and the 3rd. one is all done up. The 4th is for an adventure. This is also the vented model, Mike can make it with or without the vents.

    Again, this is the work of LAKEMONSTER, I asked him to chime in here.

    I think this is the way to GO!!!
    #55
  16. mookymoo

    mookymoo Mookish Mook

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,399
    Location:
    Either UK or Australia ...
    What kind of cost?
    Is there a vendor link?
    #56
  17. GoNOW

    GoNOW Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,604
    On my 950, I have an 04 S with the suspension done so smacking the ground is not something I do often. The stock skid plate has been holding up, even to this.

    [​IMG]


    So, maybe you guys need to look into getting your suspension reworked so you are not smacking the bottom of the bike so hard. :D
    #57
  18. Hondo

    Hondo What if it's a Samsquamch?

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    12,949
    Location:
    Front Range, CO
    That is a great looking skidplate- tell your SE friends!
    #58
  19. mattc

    mattc Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    629
    Location:
    West Baton Rouge
    Yea, that plate does look very nice. How about a pic of the left side?
    #59
  20. v8toilet

    v8toilet Nothing to see here.

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,738
    Location:
    Northwest U.S.
    Those of us who are complaining have had them reworked :D
    #60