Sherco & Scorpa Differences - 2016+

Discussion in 'Trials' started by motobene, May 17, 2017.

  1. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    Yes, a fun new thread to address repeat questions regarding what is different between the Sherco and Scorpa trials models.

    Brilliant marketing strategy, really. Color and name connotations are powerful, psychologically. KTM orange to match one's EXC, or the glowing blue and yellow befitting the gorgeous blonde women who compete on them at the world level :-)

    Your choice of color. If only the parent company could figure out how to do a red-white-silver Sherco without high production costs and inventory burdens, I suppose they'd net some loyal Gasser-color guys too! GasGas used to do that, somewhat, and it's an expensive way to market the same bike.

    We know the Sherco-Scorpa (same parent company) bikes are substantially the same. "A Sherco in two colors," I have sometimes quipped. But having two 2017 Shercos and a 2017 Scorpa in the shop is revealing more differences in detail. It's more on the lines of different way to do the same thing, but different, nonetheless.

    Aside from the obvious paint, stickers, and anodize differences, the SC standard model comes with 40mm Marzocchi forks, which means larger-bore triple clamps and a two-piece front axle. Sherco ST standard and Factory models, and Scorpa Factory models use two versions of the 39mm Tech fork, with steel stanchions for standard and hard coated aluminum stanchions for Factory models.

    Why Marzocchis? The parent company bought out the remaining stock of Marzocchi forks with the fancy SKF greenish seals intended for GasGas production just before GasGas went poof in `15. These aluminum stanchion 'Zokes should continue to show up on the SC until the inventory is used up. Fine working forks.

    The standard models of both use the Olle (oh-yeh) R16V shock. The Factory models differ: Ohlins for Sherco and Reiger for Scorpa. All shocks are interchangeable between the models.

    The frames are likely same jig specs but they are different in tube and stamping shapes. Sherco is wider in the tank area, and Scorpa is wider over the carburetor.

    The plastic, from subframe/airbox to fenders is from different-shape molds. Scorpa has a front fastener in the gas tank. Sherco has no fasteners affixing the tank.

    Cable and hose routing through the steering head area is different.

    Some speculate the flashing of the eProms (ignition map) of the modules may be different. I don't know. It's an easy swap of modules, if you are curious. They all use the Hidria (pronounced and sometimes written as Idria) so-called 'dual spark' ignition. 'Dual spark' is marketing slather, as these units do not have two plugs per cylinder. It's like "new transmission" when one part in an assembly of 20 is changed!

    The fork brace fender mounts are different. Not sure if that is from the fender being different, or from the Marzocchi forks. Disc cover is also different on the SC as part of the no-same-plastic theme.

    The Scorpa has a plastic bit at the front of the tank. The tank sits on that and the M6 clip for the single front tank fastener to go into. There is also has something for the gas cap vent to plug into and hoses and wires to pass through, Montesa-like. The Sherco lacks all that and is simpler, but the vent hose sometimes doesn't know where to hang out. The tank is simply held in place by the subframe and frame at the steering head. The Sherco design is based on the format of the 2015 Scorpa Twenty, but being a year later, perhaps Sherco simplified this area to get rid of more parts, which is the longstanding design trend. Simplify, integrate, and reduce cost!

    Another odd bit is the Scorpa SC comes with a standard kill switch, not a lanyard kill switch.

    And finally, the `17 Sherco picked up 6656 (pair) and 6657 (pair) stick-on black elastomer fork stops, positioned on the widest, stamped steel frame bulge. Like the 2016 Sherco, the 2017 SC does not have fork stops, just the transparent sticker on the fork tube. I never had any issues on my `16, but the lack of resilient stops could ding the frame hard in a slap-type crash. This lack can bug some pickybrains, even if the statistical probability of a frame-dinging crash is in the minority.

    The Scorpa frame is widest on the frame tubes where the fork tubes contact, not on the flatter stamping as on the Sherco. It is possible the two sets of Sherco parts will stick onto, and stay on, the more curved Scorpa frame tubes. Simple to order the parts from RYP or your source and give them a shot. Please report on the results.

    More later, and please add to this. I know I will miss something.
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  2. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    The 300 Scorpa I'm setting up has a slightly stiffer clutch lever pull than my 250 Factory. Both were assembled April of '17, so both should have the new clutch spring retainer plate with 0.012" less spring preload. The Sherco 250's engine number is 4032882. The Scorpa 300's number is 4002098. Not sure if that means anything.

    The Sherco has the AJP clutch master cylinder, the Scorpa has the newer BrakTec design. The pivot-to-second clutch lever distance on the flat AJP lever is 18.75mm. On the jogged lever of the BrakTec it's the longest ever 22.75mm lever. So there is some or all of the difference.

    I had suspected the early production spring retainer plate was in this engine, but now I think it's just the oddball geared-up lever. The most common levers are 18.75, so reducing lever pull a bit would be an easy fix. I have one to try.

    The pic shows the 22.75 on the bike and the 18.75 in my hand. The part number for the 18.75 is Sherco 5523.

    See this thread:
    http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/clutch-tuning-with-levers.1188896/#post-30882007

    Attached Files:

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  3. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    Found out the Olle R16V shock is steel body, aluminum eye. Body looks like aluminum from the zinc chromate clear plating.

    The shock is a minimalist design and is 40% lighter than a typical hard-coated aluminum-body Sachs ZF shock for GasGas.
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  4. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    After setting up a new Scorpa, I turned to my new Sherco. Other than nowhere to plug the gas cap vent tube into on the Sherco, The Sherco is, being designed a year after the Scorpa Twenty, is simpler and a bit better around the steering head.

    The Sherco has no front tank fastener (or any fasteners), and no unwieldy plastic thing for the fastener, no cables routed through the plastic thing, and the frame tubes and stampings are much wider behind the steering head, forming a larger cavity to get at and tuck away wiring and electrical components and to access the radiator fill.

    Just two different ways of doing the same thing, but I favor easier to work on. Also the cable routing on Sherco is I think a little better. The high routing of the clutch hose on the Scorpa makes it bulge a bit where it turns to go to the master cylinder. If you don't zip tie it back it'll push on a number plate.

    But this detail showed me I could zip tie the clutch hose behind and below the fuel cock on both Sherco and Scorpa. You pull the hose a bit posterior, making the hose loop up out of the way of the fuel cock so it is easier to reach.

    This little mod serves to lessen the turn-bulge of the hose in front of the forks on a Scorpa.

    IMG_20170524_154552704.jpg
    #4
  5. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    Here is a view of the relatively more cluttered Scorpa forward under-tank area near the steering head. The cavity made by frame tubes and gusset stampings is much smaller than of the Sherco.

    The second photo shows the high clutch line placement and turn bulge AFTER I pulled the clutch hose/line back and zip tied it. IMG_20170519_123823319.jpg IMG_20170522_175521127.jpg
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  6. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    Another small difference between Sherco and Scorpa is air box and air box lid shape. The Scorpa gives a tiny bit more width at the opening to put your hand in sideways to get at filter and screw.

    On both air boxes, unless you like frustration, it is far easier to service the filter with the subframe off. You can pressure wash the box easily too.

    When replacing the filter and getting the screw to start, use strong light to sight down through the air boot to see the air filter area internals. You can just barely catch sight of the screw hole and the critical double fingers on the bottom rim of the air filter cage that are intended to straddle the bottom-center airbox strut. I insert the filter into the airbox with the screw already the filter, BTW.

    Once the filter is properly in place you can fine position the screw tip into the threaded hole and start the threads with a sigh of relief.

    Using this direct-view method, replacing a filter usually takes me no more than one minute with my tongue sticking out just so. Cramped with my big hands, but it works, and I appreciate them not making the airbox exterior any bigger :-)
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  7. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    FYI here is a view of where Sherco puts the stick-on fork stop pads and where the fork tube contacts a pad at full lock. The pad terminates under the S in SHERCO.

    The Scorpa is widest at the tubes, not the stamped gussets, so fitting Sherco pads to a Scorpa, does that work out?

    IMG_20170530_212045896.jpg
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  8. Limbman

    Limbman Adventurer

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    How did you know I was just looking at making some rubber pads to bond on there ?
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  9. Bronco638

    Bronco638 Nobody Home

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    I sure hope that's better than the "bump stop" plastic thingy that's mounted to the frame of my '14 3.0 ST. The knife edge of the lower triple does a nice job of destroying it.
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  10. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    The pads feed good bumping the stops, but the are thick. They will take out some steering degrees used as is.
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  11. Bronco638

    Bronco638 Nobody Home

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    So, you're saying the turning radius is not as good as on my Sherco? :hmmmmm I recently got to the point where I feel comfortable making turns at full steering lock (while trying to be easy on the bump stop).
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  12. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    I'm saying that if you put Sherco pads on a Scorpa at the current fork-like contact area that you will lose steering degrees. Whether or not what is lost matters is another issue.
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  13. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    Sorry, I perhaps misunderstood the comment. The 2017 Sherco frame was modified to have a place for the pads and not reduce steering turning degrees noticeably.

    The pads are a molded elastomer that is quite hard. There are cavities on the backside that help the hard material give way when bumped, so it is a compromise between impact tough and resilient.
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  14. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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    Chris, did you get to see Kyle's frame frome his crash Saturday? 2016 Scorpa, took a huge leap in the air on section 6. Really messed up the left top tube by the steering head. Seems like the rest of the front end held up pretty good through it all. So the frame is plenty strong.
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  15. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    Oh yeah! I was like, "What the hell happened!". He told me the story of his 12-foot sky shot back off the monster ski-hill rocks. NOT a good place to lose it, mentally or physically!

    I did that in 3rd the first time then changed to 2nd as I got boggy in 3rd on the big slabs (love the new clutch).

    Line, you rode awesome both days!
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  16. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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    Thanks. You had a good ride too. I had some good lines, just need to clean up my soft dabs to get closer to Rob.
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  17. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    Closer to Rob is hard to do! Like on Lance's section. That hold pressure double step exit hung me up every time. Rob just powers through.
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  18. lineaway

    lineaway Long timer

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    That was a good section. I stuffed the front tire the first loop, but not again!
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  19. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

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    The back problem, which got better the more I rode, has made me reticent about being forceful to hold pressure like over the rock gap. Just two weeks earlier and high force stuff would hurt me, badly.

    Sucks getting old!
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  20. 2whlrcr

    2whlrcr gooligan

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    I'm 61 today, I don't feel bad for you kids.
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