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Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by DARKRYDER, Mar 11, 2013.
From Shorai "the battery is not waterproof". I asked this because of the low battery mounting position and vulnerability to being submerged. The little special charge/balance port is susceptible to water intrusion. Shorai suggested I seal the port with silicon grease around the charge cable. Not exactly confidence inspiring. As to cold weather starting if 48°F is cold then we have other problems. The thing would not crank in the AM @ 48°F just did the reboot thing numerous times. Again that same day after work 50+F failed to crank on the first try. This is the third battery from Shorai and I am on the third charger. From Shorai "we have had some chip problems with our chargers", but they were giving me a good faith replacement battery even though their charger damaged the battery!! To holding a charge for a long time that may be so but not in any bike with a parasitic draw. Take for instance a clock. My bike has 0.008A draw with the alarm activated, 0.006 with just the clock, and that will kill the battery within several weeks.
I am happy for all who have not had starting or water immersion problems with the Shorai battery but for my money the technology is not ready for prime time.
More actual evidence here. Thanks!If that's true and Shorai actually said the above then it seems Shorai is confirming that the only possible point of entry for water would be the inside of the charging port. Not around the charging port, rather inside the charging port where the pins are. If this is the only point of possible intrusion then that's fine with me! This falls in line with what you are seeing in the picture above: rubber charging port plug in = no water intrusion. And if you're really worried about water intrusion, do what Shorai recommends as a safety measure: silicone grease in the charging port.... and keep the rubber charging plug cap in. When you need to charge it's two screws to drop the skidplate. No biggy. Point being, I wouldn't consider the Shorai 'not ready for prime time' or 'unworthy' because of this. I tend to go with experience and the facts: 1) I've used Shorais in my dirt bikes in mud, rain, water, sand, dirt, dust, vibration, etc with no issues whatsoever. I've never had a charging problem or a cranking power problem either. 2) If you're worried about water intrusion, throw a dab of silicone grease in the charging plug/port and then insert the rubber charging plug cap = watertight. The pic above says it all. Thanks again to those who have offered up some real evidence.
Dude,,,, your nitpicing. "Not waterproof" means just that, not waterproof. Doesn't matter at that point how the water gets in,,,, it gets in. A dab of silicone grease also doesn't magically make the battery waterproof...it's just sealed up the known leak. I'm betting that there is no gasketing where the terminals go through the case either. Just because they are molded in doesn't make them waterproof. For something to be waterproof it need to be tested and rated as such. There is nothing on the Shorai website that tells what the ratings are.
Just because YOU haven't had any issues with water doesn't make it a non issue. Do a little research around the net and you will see plenty of failures after a battery has been submerged. I have an 04 950 Adventure with close to 40k on the odometerand havent' had a lot of the issues that other people have had had,,,, fuel pump failure, starter clutch, clutch slave, water pumpto name a few. So does that mean all the people that have had issues are spreading false rumours????
Wake up and smell the roses hunney! The OP just asked a question that challenged your spending money on a Shorai.
False on all counts.
I'm not, nor have I said or am I doing any of what you claim above. Read my posts before claiming something about me that's not true. Thanks. I'm not nor have I claimed that Shorais are waterproof. I've simply asked for real proof that they aren't, instead if a hunch. DARKRYDER made a bold statement that they aren't waterproof in his first post based upon opinion and a hunch. I, and many others, have had great luck with Shorais and want factual evidence to back that claim. So far the only people that have provided real evidence about Shorais and water intrusion from experience with the batteries or from contacting Shorai are ST4s, _cy_, ItsNotTheBike, MTN roads, Mikehusa, zeegman, and Lil' Irv. Kudos to them. They are what this forum needs. The Shorai has a weak point. No skin off my nose. As I've stated this whole time, I have been and am open to real evidence supporting potential water intrusion. We've seen some now. Good. And we've also seen some good evidence that though Shorai doesn't claim they're waterproof, with proper use of the rubber plug and some silicone, water potentially won't be an issue. That's all I was looking for and asking for. No need to get aggressive and make claims about me that aren't real, and say I've done things that I haven't. .....hunney-buns.
I like ADVRider, and I'll take the flames from a few in order to help make sure there is as much solid and helpful info on here as possible. Take care guys!
Did you actually read AND comprehend what I wrote? Apparently not.
So we are back to,,, the OP stateing that he "Just learned the Shorai wasn't waterproof" and you saying he was spreading a rumour. The OP's statement was supported by Shorai.
End of story,,,, CYA!
I see. We have another "gotta have the last word with false statements" guy....
I did read your false statements regarding me thoroughly, yes. You started plain as day trolling with post #31, looking to f*** with people. Then in post #44 you made a number of inaccurate and completely false statements about me. So... we're back to: read my posts, then read your posts. What you claim in post #44 that I did never happened!
You claimed that I said that the Shorai IS waterproof. I did not. Show me where I did.
I'd also like to point out that in post #44 you made an unfounded statement: "there is no gasketing where the terminals go through the case either." Show us.
You also said that I think "it's a non-issue". I never said that. Does it kinda suck that Shorai supposedly said that they're not waterproof? Yeah. Am I worried about mine failing from water intrusion? Far less than I am worried about the engine grenading!
I also did not say he was "spreading a rumor". I said it was misinformation until we get some actual proof. I was calling him out on his statement until proof was presented, since he wasn't willing to present any actual proof. He was just stating his opinion on the matter. You can't take something that DARKRYDER said in the first post of the thread without proof and marry it with the supposed phone call to Shorai that another guy posted way later! DARKRYDER didn't present the Shorai phone call evidence! In fact he hasn't presented any evidence of the Shorai not being waterproof other than his opinion! In fact, the best and hardest evidence on this matter so far is from _cy_ in post #38:
So what do we know now in this thread so far?
1) Shorai says their batteries aren't watertight, and that they recommend keeping the rubber plug in with some silicone grease underneath it. They've also confirmed that the only point of entry for the water is the charging plug. More specifically, wording makes it sound like the weak point is inside the plug where the pins are and not around the plug.
2) _cy_'s Shorai has been submerged without bubbles, meaning water is not penetrating his.
3) Many have chimed in with accounts of their Shorais not failing from water penetration after river crossings and water exposure, including myself.
4) Zero (so far) accounts of a Shorai actually failing due to water penetration. (in this thread)
Quick question....and your all welcome to let me have it!
The stock battery nor any oem battery is water proof is it? I know one person chimed in on a "zero gravity" battery being waterproof but none of the lead acids are waterproof are they??
Folks in here are doing some pretty soggy stuff and never hear about a battery getting water logged.... Right????
Ok let the flogging begin!!
Just got off the phone with Shorai:
Shorai does not advertise their batteries as "waterproof". Though, they were quick to point out that virtually the entire battery is sealed.
The entire battery is watertight, except for where the pins protrude from within the charging connector...the inside of the connector where the pins are.
I was told the battery is sealed around the outside of the charging connector, where the black housing plastic meets the connector. No intrusion there.
I was also told that where the rubber connector cap mounts to the case is sealed as well. No possibility of intrusion there either.
They said to do two things if you are worried about water intrusion:
Fill the inside of the charging connector (where the pins are) with dielectric grease:
Use the rubber connector plug!
You're good to go! River-cross away!
Good to know, because at some point I'll immerse it at least partially.
Well I know that I'm satisfied that this topic should be concluded.
Hey, going back to the original query about "using the snot out of this battery." I've been doing my best for over a year and a half and it has not failed me once. How many of us could say that about the stock battery?
I couldn't say whether or not the shorai is completely waterproof and I don't care as long as it keeps working as advertised.
I did upgrade to a mosfet Regulator (FHO 20aa) which seemed to help.
let's talk about the real issue, which is due to how LiFePO4 batteries are labeled. it's almost impossible to tell what size battery to put into our bikes. not everyone has the test equipment to measure actual amp hour capacity.
from what I can tell .. it's a marketing thing. they all are doing it (some are just leaving AH off ) ... if LiFePO4 mfg marketed their battery as say a 4.6AH (amp hour) battery, instead of say an 18AH ... some folks would get confused and not buy their battery.
seems to me if someone buys a 18AH LiFePO4 battery thinking it will do the job. especially if the battery coming out is a 16AH leadacid. And that 18AH LiFePO4 battery fails at first sign of cold weather.
can you blame that person for being just a bit pissed... especially if that person is in the middle of NO where on a long trip....
this is why .. my recommendations is to go with an AGM ... unless saving weight is more important than saving $$$ ... for Starbuck duties go with a size larger than most mfg suggests. for adventure duties to parts unknown ... go with the largest AH LiFePO4 that you stuff into your available space.
Shorai LFX36 has proven it's self over a one year tests on R80G/S, including extreme cold conditions. an old Airhead has MUCH higher cranking needs than any modern fuel injected bike. on top of a crappy charging system.
Earth-X ETX 36 is currently in R80G/S and has performed with outstanding results. things are looking great for Earth-X, but it's got to survive a long term. Smaller Earth-X has consistently out performed Shorai on 200amp load tests.
Shorai LFX36 next to Earth-X ETX36 ... Both are excellent!!!
Hey Matt - which Shorai model are you using in your 990? So far, this battery cranks my bike like nobody's business and I will be field testing it in the coming months. Whatever weight I saved was added right back with the Rigid D2 LED fogs, lol.
I used a LFX18A1-BS12 in mine, And was suprised at how long it would crank at full speed
Just purchased the same model for my 990 Superduke.
ah .. but at what temperatures?
and minor details but for how long?
when temps drops ... that's when actual amp hour capacities, not PB/EQ comes into play.
LiFePO4 at 14f AH capacity drops in half. don't forget your LFX18 actual AH is about 4.6AH, not 18AH. it's 18AH PB/EQ (lead acid equivalent) .. LiFePO4 warm up procedures requires amps flow to heat battery ... which lowers internal resistance, bringing back up LiFePO4's ability to deliver huge amps. above cold weather start procedure specific to LiFePO4 uses up amps ... assuming you've got a full charge, at a tiny 4.6AH ... your margin of error is slim indeed.
LiFePO4 is no different than any other battery in that when current draw goes up, actual amp hour capacities goes down.
this means if you only crank for say 1-2 second intervals .. your LFX18 will deliver a high number of crank cycles. but when you try to do extended 200amp cranks .. LFX18 will fall flat on it's face .. not because it's a bad battery. but because it's too small for the job!!!
for Starbuck duties .. IMHO LFX18 is still too small for 990 ... certainly not for real Adv duties to parts unknown. go with AGM or if you've got the $$$ ... use largest LiFePO4 you can stuff into available space.
don't forget Starbuck duties could include the dreaded .. Cold start, short ride with heated gear... don't be surprised if your 990 will not start the next morning at say 25f ...
Joel Wiseman, one of the most knowledgeable techs on Adv, did an excellent video on this very topic... follow link in sig for more detailed info ...
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Well i don't have my 950 Adventurer anymore, But when i tried to start it on very cold days,yes it would need warming up,Which i achieved by turning on the lights for a couple of moments. But believe me, it would crank way longer and faster than my old lead acid battery. I had one of the fuels lines pinched off one time by accident and cranked it way too long before discovering the problem,where the stock battery would of fell on its face way before the Shorai. Is there better batteries out there? Probably, But i am happy with the Shorai right now.And it has not failed me yet on an LC8,even with the smaller LFX18A1.
And lucky i don't go Starbucks very often,But my 950 with the Shorai was fine up the Dempster and Denali Highways with a GPS.radar detector,and heated vest and grips.
There's a 'charging port'?
Christ, now I need to dick around with my battery because I don't recall ever seeing a battery port on my Shorai...I just put the fokker in a couple yrs ago, haven't had any issues.
It's snowing here, so that'll be my weekend project ... silocone seal the Shorai, even though it's probably not necessary...