Shorai Lithium Battery

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by chau, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. chau

    chau Adventurer

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    Anyone have experience with them?

    Pros: Considering a Shorai lithium battery it as it does need to be connected to a battery tender. Slower discharge than a Gel. Lighter weight but that's not as important to me.

    Cons: More expensive (about $250) and relatively new so not enough findings to prove benefits vs negatives

    Also i think i read somewhere that it may not work with a battery tender Jr.

    Thoughts?
    #1
  2. def

    def Ginger th wonder dog

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    Do some more homework be for you decide on lead or lithium.
    #2
  3. DualMule

    DualMule Been here awhile

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    I ran dual shorai's on my previous GSA before I was hit and the bike got totaled. I never had a problem with them and never felt the need to use them both at the same time. One thing people don't like about them is how they behave in the cold. I live in Boston and I would have to turn on the headlight for a few minutes on a cold day to get the battery to warm up or it wouldn't turn over. That said, they never failed me.

    The only reason I went with the Shorai was to run dual batteries; I don't think the weight savings are really that valuable on a loaded up GS. I think for normal use, an Odyssey PC625 is the best option out there and it's drop in (just need to mod the front seat height rod and reroute leads...unlike some describe, the fins on the battery don't have to be shaved down).
    #3
  4. chau

    chau Adventurer

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    Interesting about how to deal with lithium in the cold.

    Sounds like Odyssey is favored by most. Will the Odyssey work with a low seat?

    And what leads are you referring...the ones that connect to the battery?

    I'm looking for a direct drop in (like the current Yuasa) that will still work if i don't use the bike for a few day.

    I park outside, ride about 10 miles RT to work and try to do longer rides on the weekends. Unfortunately living in the city, i do not have access to connect the bike to a battery tender so i am looking for a battery that will not discharge quickly plus will still work when it gets colder.
    #4
  5. Iron Rey

    Iron Rey Wingnut Extraordinaire

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    Chau,

    What are you riding? GS or GSA? I have a Shorai in my GSA as you cannot fit an Odyssey in the GSA's with ESA.

    Pro's: It's light, couple of pounds, in my case since I am a fatass it really doesn't matter, my dump this morning probably weighed more that a lead acid battery. :rofl I works well when it is warm, and I expect it to last longer than the lead acid batteries (I got 3 years on the L/A on my '08 GSA, but only a year on my '10 GSA).

    Con's; It is shiite in the cold, yes, you can turn the lights on and warm up the battery, that helps, but when you are like me and ride year round, unless I wrap the battery in a heating pad (I do this in the winter), it is just either not going to start or the seriously reduced output is VERY hard on your starter (this is also a serious consideration if you have an older bike with servo brakes, it just won't even try to start at the lower voltage), I ride in all temps (my lowest has been -5 deg F) as long as there is no ice. Also, you need a special kind of charger if you are going to have it on a tender, call Kieth at Black Dog Cycle Works and he will give you a lot of good info. I know he REALLY pushed them when he first started carrying them but I think he has become slightly more pragmatic since.

    If I had a regular GS, I would do the mod and put in an Odyssey, if I lived in a year round warm climate and weight was important to me I may go with the Shorai, but all things considered, I truely think the Odyssey is still the all around best choice if you can fit it in your bike.

    Just my $.02, YMMV.
    #5
  6. Mr. Canoehead

    Mr. Canoehead Taste Gunnels!

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    I have a Shorai (and servo brakes) and on a recent trip we had two mornings with frost. It started (eventually) after doing the warmup thing but I don't need that stress on vacation. It actually cranked OK but at 10v, the bike won't fire. I'll be moving the Shorai to the DR and going Odyssey on the GSA.

    It's funny how a non-starting bike at a motel brings motorcyclists out of the woodwork, all with different solutions and none of them thought leaving the lights on for 5 minutes was a good idea but it worked!
    #6
  7. Dulsprtrider

    Dulsprtrider Been here awhile

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    This is my .02.......I have a Shori as well in my 2009 12GSA. I started with the 14 amp which my dealer originally suggested. It started but made me nervous; they exchanged it for an 18 amp. It worked fine but in the cold, again made me nervous. I called Shori at my dealer’s suggestion and they now recommend the 21 amp for the bigger bikes like mine. They exchanged it after having the 18 amp for 6 month at no charge. I've had the 21 amp for 3 months now, just returned from a 7000 mile 15 day ride to Alaska, we encountered a few cool mornings where the temps were 31 degrees, the bike started without hesitation each and every time. I was worried about it before I left but had no issues.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    Hindsight is always a factor with every decision we make going forward, knowing what I know now I may try the Odyssey when this one gives up strictly for peace of mind. Saving the few pounds on such a heavy bike maybe doesn't really matter in the end.
    #7
  8. Mr. Canoehead

    Mr. Canoehead Taste Gunnels!

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    Mine is the 18 Ahr. I think Shorai is full of crap on the CCA rating on the battery.

    [From the web] The SAE J537 CCA test mandates to cool a fully charged battery to -18°C (0°F) for 24 hours, and while at subfreezing temperature apply a high-current discharge that simulates the cranking of an engine. A 500 CCA battery would need to supply 500A for 30 seconds and stay above 7.2V (1.2V/cell) to pass. If it fails the test, the battery has a CCA rating of less than 500A. To find the CCA rating, the test must be repeated several times with different current settings to find the triggering point when the battery passes through 7.2V line. Between each test, the battery must be brought to ambient temperature for recharging and cooled again for testing.

    I dont buy Shorai's stated CCA of 270 (for the 18 AHr) when Odyssey rates the PC680 battery at 220. Having to pre-heat the Shorai means that it doesn't have anything like 270 CCA - it probably has under 100 CCA, IMO. ​

    My 6 year old BMW factory battery (170 CCA rating when new) would still start my bike at 32 F but the new Shorai would not (at least without heating it first).
    #8
  9. chau

    chau Adventurer

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    thanks all. The shorai doesn't sound like it suits me as i live on east coast where it can get pretty frigid. WWish Odyssey made a drop in. Oh well. I think i'm going to go with the higher CCA Yuasa YTX14H-BS which i think puts out 220 or 240 CCA.
    #9
  10. Mr. Canoehead

    Mr. Canoehead Taste Gunnels!

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    I thought the 525 was a drop in for the 1200? The 680 is a drop in for the 1150.
    #10
  11. AdventureDave

    AdventureDave MMMMM Bundy!

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    You should also give Antigravity batteries a look in as well. He is an inmate here and makes top quality lithium batteries. I dont have any association, just a happy customer.

    http://antigravitybatteries.com/


    Cheers

    David
    #11
  12. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    got an extensive testing thread going on LiFePO4 batteries

    unless weight savings is of huge importance... go with AGM which also has low self discharge rates

    main advantage for LiFePO4 is weight savings and low self discharge rates.

    marketing doesn't meet with reality, most mfg inflate amp hour ratings...
    #12
  13. viz

    viz I Ride Ms Piggy

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    Would not go Shorai - there does seem to be issues, balanced charging, longevity, claimed cc amps etc. If you want to go Lithium check out the Antigravity mob for the 1200GS part numbers AG12YTX12 360CCA or AG16YTX12 480CCA (do some research on cca between Li and AGM/Gel - not all are equal)

    Otherwise Odyssey and in particular for the 1200GS the PC535GS. I have not done much research into the latter, but if I could get one here that is one the one that I would buy... Deka ETX14 is (arguably) the next best one.

    PS - battery just gone in my bike - have done some extensive research and above is what I have come up with

    viz
    #13
  14. r2adv

    r2adv Been here awhile

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    I was about to order an Odyssey for my GSA with ESA and I saw this. If you do the mods will it fit?
    #14
  15. TuefelHunden

    TuefelHunden Been here awhile

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    Got a Shorai. Their customer service was fantastic. Started with a 14aH on my Tiger, had problems with cold cranking they sent me an 18ah for free, no shipping either way. Got the GS and they sent me the 21ah, again for free, no shipping. Has worked great ever since. They had a bad batch of circuit boards on the first two, admitted to it (which is totally unusual these days) and made it right. Rather than listen to a lot and I mean a LOT of bad info on the net, go to the Shorai website and read about the battery, you might learn something, like the CCA rating on lead acid and lithium battery are very different or there are several types of Li batteries.
    #15
  16. byathread

    byathread Adventurer

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    For what it's worth, I put an odyssey in my 98 1100GS 3 years and 3 months ago and haven't touched it since. I like riding and having my alternator charge the battery. Starts every time. A little slow to crank after sitting for a month or two in the winter, but, no issues firing it up. If you are riding that 10 miles RT and longer weekend rides, you'd be fine using this unfussy method as well.

    Did the same thing on my FZ1 and had the same results. I lived in the city and parked on the sidewalk where I couldn't hook up a tender.

    Good luck!
    #16
  17. viz

    viz I Ride Ms Piggy

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    Interesting this - I had thought that the GS version of the PC535 (i.e. PC535GS) fitted ESA or no without mods. Might pay to check it out (my GSA has no ESA).

    viz
    #17
  18. Iron Rey

    Iron Rey Wingnut Extraordinaire

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    No it won't, I have talked to a local BMW dealer (no, he is not protecting the brand, he only stocks Odyssey for all of the bikes that it fits), I have also worked with some of my friends and there is just no way to make it work...But it is kind of like the question of getting factory TPM on a bike that did not come to the factory with it, dealers will tell you they can't do it, but someone knows a friend of their girlfriends brother who has done it, I have never seen any proof it will fit on our bikes. Bummer.
    #18
  19. DualMule

    DualMule Been here awhile

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    Yes, your seat pan should be the same regardless of the seat height. Here's a picture of the battery leads and how they need to be rerouted

    <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Qw_sMmYUXDSPerS-Pnxgm9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1rO90UIAMKo/UBQ7yYXbyTI/AAAAAAAAAEU/doFNHBzNxiQ/s144/2012-07-28%252014.37.40.jpg" height="144" width="108" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/108368262948518690135/OdysseyPC625?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Odyssey PC625</a></td></tr></table>

    I just dropped it in after relocating the wires. No trimming etc. You will have to mod the front seat height adjustment bar. I removed the stock one and replaced it with two small pieces of solid aluminum round stock that I cut to size (purchased a local hardware store. The PC625 fits very snug without any mods...that's great. As far as a strap, I don't see the need...not really anywhere it can go and I've ridden a lot of off-road miles and never had a problem. My tank bag mount does extend out above the battery, so that would keep it from bouncing around too much.


    Here's me calling you on your bullshit. Show me in the picture how ESA would interfere with installing the PC625 that is installed on my GSA with ESA in this picture? You don't even need to have the battery to figure that out.

    <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/PE6VFKe32sdAy4lICW4xuNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Bvd4-EUzx8g/UBQ7ytGEdPI/AAAAAAAAAEc/D7qktpL1oUw/s144/2012-07-28%252014.38.06.jpg" height="144" width="108" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/108368262948518690135/OdysseyPC625?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">Odyssey PC625</a></td></tr></table>
    #19
  20. beemerphile

    beemerphile Long timer

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    I've owned two Shorai batteries. The one in my R1150 shit the bed after only 3 months. The one in my TMax scooter is still doing well a year later. I don't trust them for serious duty.
    #20