Short Trips Non-ATGATT not a good idea.

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by VaderSS, Jun 5, 2009.

  1. VaderSS

    VaderSS Canyon Carving Goldwing

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Oddometer:
    336
    Location:
    Cordelia, CA
    From the Hurt Report;


    Most motorcycle accidents involve a short trip associated with shopping, errands, friends, entertainment or recreation, and the accident is likely to happen within 5 miles or 12 minutes of the trip origin.

    After learning that, I'm ATGATT or in the car.
    #1
  2. Waco

    Waco Renegade Sickle Hound

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Oddometer:
    15,072
    Location:
    Waco, Texas
    The good news is that most accidents also happen at 20-30 mph, if I remember correctly, so wearing racing leathers every day isn't absolutely necessary. I've hit the pavement a few times in blue jeans and walked away with minor road rash.
    #2
  3. Jamie Z

    Jamie Z Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    Oddometer:
    8,540
    Location:
    Denver, more or less.
    I'm pretty sure that describes a vast majority of motorcycle trips in general.

    Not discounting the study, but it's like saying most motorcycle accidents happen when it's not raining... probably true. But that doesn't mean riding in the rain is safer, it means a vast majority of riders only go out when it's not raining.

    Jamie
    #3
  4. fiep

    fiep Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,914
    Location:
    GA
    lucky you
    I did a police meassured 140m slide, for non-metrics: almost 460ft
    after a car decuded I was not going to pass and knocked the GS out from under me
    a less than 30ft blue smear was the right side of my jeans
    the best jacket available at the time and mx boots saved my hide

    you will catch me in jeans very, very seldom
    but I do not ride only a few miles either
    #4
  5. fiep

    fiep Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,914
    Location:
    GA
    that might be true
    but on the other hand
    most riders are less inattentive when it's raining
    and just around the block people are most likely to let their guard down
    with their mind already on whatever task they will face in a little while ...
    got my drift?
    #5
  6. swingset

    swingset Got the knack.

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Oddometer:
    11,567
    Location:
    Central Ohio
    Where are you more often, close to home or far away from it? Most people that ride motorcycle are not long distance riders....and even those that DO take long trips probably make more short trips and errands than they do long hauls.

    There's the stupidity of this statistic.

    Most people die in their homes, another earth-shattering statistic. But, based on it, I don't spend much time in the house.....see, I'm smart.

    :lol3
    #6
  7. Butters

    Butters Kwyjibo

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,024
    Location:
    NoVA
    Speaking of misleading . . .

    When I decided to get a bike (dual sport in particular), my thinking was that I would mainly be on dirt roads and rarely on the highway. My main concern isn't injuries in general, but death or serious injuries that would effect my family.

    It now seems pretty apparent to me that even with the higher speeds of the highway, the most dangerous places for motorcycles seems to be those areas where there is a combination of speed, other vehicles, and intersections/cross streets/ as well as undivided roads.

    Not saying motorcyclists don't die on highways, but I would think (mile for mile) there are probably more fatalities on the higher speed city streets.

    In other words, there can be lots of threats on local roads but your reduced speed lessens the chance of serious injury. On the other side, highways have the higher speeds but less external threats. But that middle area - where your speeds are higher but you still have the external threats of city traffic - Yikes.

    Now, I just have to figure out how to minimize my internal threats of overconfidence and newbiness.
    #7
  8. FrankS

    FrankS ...please wait...

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2007
    Oddometer:
    431
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Studies can prove or disprove anything but it wouldn’t surprise me if you are at greater risk when riding close to home. You know the area, you think you are safe, you have other things on your mind than ‘road trip’, riding itself is not the sole purpose of riding, is not you get careless. Of course YMMV but in general I’d say that’s how it is.

    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    ATGATT on local trips might be a good idea but really knowing what you are getting yourself into and ride with the same care and attention you do on longer trips might reduce the risk, too.

    When coming back from a long trip and getting within a 200 miles from home, I slow down and increase the number of breaks, every 50 miles, then every 25 miles for the last 100 or so miles.

    <o:p></o:p>
    Regards

    <o:p></o:p>
    Frank
    <o:p></o:p>
    #8
  9. VStromTom

    VStromTom Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Oddometer:
    1,579
    IMO only of course, dead people don't ATGATT, especially those who don't wear helmets, they just don't know it yet.
    #9
  10. VaderSS

    VaderSS Canyon Carving Goldwing

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Oddometer:
    336
    Location:
    Cordelia, CA
    In the book, Proficient Motorcycling, Hough theorized that this statistic is due to familiarity with the roads and a lack of respect for the dangers.

    "I've gone through this intersection thousands of times and noone has ever blown it..." All it takes is once.

    I am just as guilty of this as anyone.

    I have been doing my best to try and treat the streets of my neighborhood and towns as the dangers they truly are, but it is so easy to slip back into complacency. ATGATT helps, though by no means mitigates, the dangers of mistakes.

    I wear the best gear available, but I try to ride as if I were wearing t-shirt, flip-flops, and shorts.

    Statistics are good because they give you information on what happens to average people. We can easily beat the statistics, but only if we recognize them for what they are and use the information.

    It is a poor general who discounts inteligence. To discount this statistic without doing something to address it, leaves you just as open to becoming a statistic as you were before.
    #10
  11. barnyard

    barnyard Verbal tactician Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Oddometer:
    12,664
    Location:
    central Mn
    I'm moving.

    Problem solved.

    Tom B
    #11
  12. BCC

    BCC I know better

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Oddometer:
    10,319
    Location:
    Slightly offshore, Southport, NC
    If I'm just doing a grocery store run or really any trip of less than 10 miles or so, I don't do ATGATT anymore.

    Too damn hot, too much work and I can't be bothered.

    Helmet, gloves, t-shirt, long pants, sneakers and careful riding.

    I'm atgatt for longer rides and anything in the dirt.
    #12
  13. Waco

    Waco Renegade Sickle Hound

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Oddometer:
    15,072
    Location:
    Waco, Texas
    Jeans are the one thing I cheat on. I don't mind putting on a well-ventilated jacket. I've seen pictures of ground ankle bones. I usually where my Sidi boots or some Red Wings that cover my ankles at the very least.
    #13
  14. Tome

    Tome Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Oddometer:
    334
    Location:
    London, UK
    Easy. Go everywhere fast!
    Sorry officer, I was going fast so I didn't have an accident :evil
    #14
  15. duck

    duck Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    10,403
    Location:
    Seattle (Berkeley with rain)
    Facts: You can ride ATGATT, crash and die. You can ride without a helmet, crash and live.

    Obviously you're much safer with ATGATT but it's far from a panacea.
    #15
  16. BCC

    BCC I know better

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Oddometer:
    10,319
    Location:
    Slightly offshore, Southport, NC
    Point taken. I have some motorcycle sneakers with ankle protection I could find in the back of the closet and use on shorter trips.
    #16
  17. Murf2

    Murf2 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Oddometer:
    901
    Location:
    Kansas
    VaderSS, Maybe ATGATT in the car would be the safest answer. If safety is the biggest concern I would suggest...... aw nevermind.

    Have Fun
    Murf2
    #17
  18. VaderSS

    VaderSS Canyon Carving Goldwing

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Oddometer:
    336
    Location:
    Cordelia, CA
    For those who insist on jeans for short trips, try some strap-on knee armor. Only takes a second to put on and can prevent a life altering event. It takes me the same amount of time to put my Oxtar TCS race boots on that it takes to put tennis shoes on.

    Broken bones will heal, but busted knees and ankles are often a permanent injury, to some extent.

    Murf2, I love riding too much to give it up, but I'll sure stack the cards in my favor...

    Seems like most riders would rather be ignorant of the facts and ignore the risks. I like to know about the risks and address them as best I can. I feel that most or at least many of the people on this forum tend to fall in my group. There is no way motorcycling will ever be risk-free, but then neither is taking a shower...
    #18
  19. 5th-Elefant

    5th-Elefant Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,711
    Location:
    UK
    I go 50-80mph slower in jeans and T-shirt than leathers. I'd rather crash in a t-shirt.
    #19
  20. HammerMacGreed

    HammerMacGreed Long timer

    Joined:
    May 9, 2009
    Oddometer:
    3,454
    Location:
    Vacaville


    5 miles or 12 minutes? Damn it looks like the Harley doorstep to Starbucks crowd is safe....
    #20