To answer Jaarno's other question. I use "Dirtbagz" panniers so although they're abrasion resistant they're not waterproof and after a minute or two's submersion will start to let water through so you could easily end up with soaked clothes.. A real slap in the face at the end of a long wet cold day. I just use a good quality plastic carrier bag inside the pannier. This year's was a "Next" carrier. It's of course got handles ( that's why its a "carrier ) so when you want your gear out at the end of the day you just haul it out of the pannier and throw it in your tent. Bingo! your gear's still dry. Cheaper carriers just fall apart, Ortliebs get punctured too! This one lasted all of the trip without splitting. Diff'rent strokes.