Sidecars and ATGATT

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by asrvivor, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. Bobmws

    Bobmws Curmudgeon At Large

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,411
    Location:
    Same trailer, different park, FL
    In my case, full face helmet, jacket with shoulder, elbow and back pads, Cordura pants with knee pads, gloves and boots. My only serious accident occurred when a bike from the oncoming lane was hit and dropped into my lane, right in front of me. My bike launched over the front of the dropped bike at 45mph, landed and high-sided me off. I landed right on top of my head, ground a flat spot on the top of the helmet and I slid about 50 yards down the road. Hairline fracture of one neck vertebrae, lots of bruises and stiffness, a quarter sized rug through the butt of the Darien pants with a resulting strawberry on my cheek (I know TMI).
    I thought the sidecar would be a bit less prone to this, but after reading RidingDonkeys report I feel the need for the gear.
    YMMV
    #21
  2. windmill

    windmill Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,084
    Location:
    Kent, Washington State
    That is a very subjective question.

    I wear a modular helmet, Barbour International jacket, work, riding, or ski gloves depending on weather, steel toe work boots, and jeans, I only wear overpants for cold or rain.

    Some would consider that all the gear,

    Some would point out that I wear no armor, or abrasion protective gear, boots with laces are inadequate. a modular helmet isn't as protective as a FF,

    I think it is reasonable to say the more gear and the better it is, the better your odds are of reducing or possibly avoiding injury, but it's no guarantee that you will not be injured or killed in an accident.

    IMO it id foolish to not wear at least the minimal gear as required for MSF classes, but in reality, luck has as much effect as gear, so probably the best level of protection is what you are most comfortable wearing.
    #22
  3. Heyload

    Heyload Remastered Classic

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Oddometer:
    8,810
    Location:
    San Antonio
    Funny how this question keeps popping up, and it has worked it's way from motorcycles, to scooters, and now here it is in Hacks.

    The question is always the same: Do I really need it?

    The answer is very simple. No. You don't need it.....UNTIL you need it.

    Whether you ride a motorcycle, hack, or scooter, when you hit the ground and your uprotected skin faces off against the asphalt, the coefficient of friction between unprotected skin and asphalt remains the same.

    The asphalt wins. Everytime.

    I respect that it is a personal decision for each rider. I get that, really. Nobody likes to be told what to do or how to do it. For alot of folks, this discussion really raised the old hackles and the debate begins. Alot of emotional responses follow.

    But in the end, it comes down to choices. Ride your own ride, make your own choices.

    But, each rider should also be prepared to accept responsibility for their own actions, and face the consequences of those decisions.

    For me, it sort of comes down to the old "For want of a nail..." scenario. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

    A big part of my world in aviation is risk management. We know and accept there are inherent risks in what we do. We take the proper steps to reduce and hopefully eliminate those risks. I approach riding the same way.

    But we know the risk is always there. The most effective tool we have is situational awareness, and not becoming complacent.

    Complacency kills more effectively than even the most clueless, texting idiot in a car.

    We also make sure we have the proper gear, because that gear might help give us the edge we need to survive if and when things go all pear-shaped.

    In the end, we make our choices and take our chances.

    Whatever I ride or may ride, I choose to do what I can to lessen the risks. Others choose differently.

    Hopefully, we all make the right choice for ourselves and arrive in one piece.
    #23
  4. rathackman

    rathackman Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Oddometer:
    104
    Location:
    Ojo Caliente de Las Palomas, NM
    Thanks Heyload....excellent post!

    Brian
    #24
  5. newenglandjim

    newenglandjim Adventurer

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2012
    Oddometer:
    15
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    I know too well how vulnerable we really are on the road, I lost my left leg above the knee when an uninsured driver crossed the centerline and hit me head on. I had a helmet and gloves on but just jeans no riding pants but the doc said at that impact it wouldn't have made a difference what kind of pants i had on. I ride a hack because I can't ride a two wheeler anymore but I still know there is always the chance of something going really wrong so I always wear at least a helmet and gloves. Guys get killed on hacks from time to time. I knew the editer of a motorcycle riding magazine who got killed on a ural while entering a interstate, things happen so we may as well and try to be prepared.
    #25
  6. mystery jig

    mystery jig Van Gogh's Banjo

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    118
    Location:
    State 'O' Maine
    ATGATT is a good idea no matter what you ride. I think sidecar rigs are harder to master than two wheels. So, it's even more important, especially when starting out. Right hand turns are different from lefties and there's no graceful carving of turns with a hack. It's like a loving wrestling match nobody ever wins.

    By far, the vast majority of head-strikes when crashing on two, or three, wheels are in the front. A half or three-quarter helmet won't help you there. You may ride slower on a hack, but the jerk who hits you will be going the same speed.
    #26
  7. That Reverend Again

    That Reverend Again Adventurer

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Oddometer:
    43
    Location:
    Northampton UK
    That, my friend is a blinding explanation. Thank you. Thirty years in the UK Police with much of that in 'traffic', and plenty of crash investigation exams behind me, I agree wholeheartedly.
    #27
  8. Marvin and towser

    Marvin and towser Plain Mr. Botany (B)

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Oddometer:
    52
    Location:
    Cumbria UK
    I wouldn't worry about feeling indestructible. When I picked my combination up and tried to drive it home I spent the first 25 miles just hoping that the seemingly inevitable crash wouldn't hurt anyone else. The next 100 highish speed (60-70mph) miles wondering if my arms would always hurt so much and the last 25 pottering and starting to enjoy it. I don't feel any more indestructible on the combination than on my normal bike. My passengers also where helmets and gloves but the chair is roll caged up so legs don't matter as they are harnessed in.
    #28
  9. Leaf

    Leaf Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    Oddometer:
    398
    Location:
    Brandywine, WV
    I'll be the voice of insanity, since nobody else is. :p

    Let me preface this with: I still don't have my hack mounted, but I'd wear the same gear that I wear on the 2-wheelers.

    When I am in the pasture herding cattle, I wear no protective gear at all (except for the work boots I always wear, and a pair of leather work gloves if I happened to be wearing them before hopping on the bike). Incidentally, this is where I've had my worst accident to date, which involved getting the front wheel of a very elderly XR200 sideways in a ditch and flipping both me and the bike over a fence while trying to cut off a particularly bull-headed heifer. There was no injury other than bruises and soreness, and the bike only suffered triple-tree tweakage and a bent brake lever. That was a heck of a bike. And I expect I am less robust of body these days, so I don't chase them as aggressively. But I digress...

    When I am tooling around the rural roads here, I always wear a helmet (though 3/4), always wear gloves unless I am just bopping down to the store down the road and back (bugs to the bare fingers at 60mph sucks), and always wear a leather or armored textile jacket unless it's really hot out. In the winter, I wear an insulated canvas coverall under everything, but I expect it has minimal protection value.

    When I go into the "city" (pop. 30,000) wherein dwell those rabid 4-wheeled things that keep trying to kill me, or hooning about in the woods at high speed, I always wear everything, no matter how hot it is. I don't have armored pants, but use a 600 denier cordura coverall, under the jacket...
    #29
  10. asrvivor

    asrvivor Rabies Cure ????

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,877
    Location:
    Boring! MORE COW BELL
    It seems the one common denominator here is the pants. I still have not had my Ural delivered. I am gathering though that the sliding around on the seat needs to be done in a slippery type fashion. It seems a lot of you wear jeans. So I ordered some of the slight pad type jeans Alpinestars Logic Kevlar Denim Pants. Has anyone had any experience with these being ok to do the arse slide on the seat. They seem to have minimal protection, but still add some road rash protection. I think this is the only change I will make to the gear line up. My Aerostitch riding pants are huge and I feel the may be too cumbersome on the seat and between the bike and car. The pads on my current pants are 8 in. wide.
    #30
  11. Leaf

    Leaf Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    Oddometer:
    398
    Location:
    Brandywine, WV
    As of yet, I've not found any armored pants that come anywhere near fitting. I'm not a heavy person at all, and not abnormally tall or short. But if I find a pair that are loose enough around the waist to pull on over my normal pants, the legs are always way too long and the knee armor is way too low.

    One of these days, I'm going to get some cheap MX protectors and pop-rivet 'em to my coverall with washers on the back.... Then I can just pull the whole thing on and off without fiddling with all the little pieces.....
    #31
  12. Bobmws

    Bobmws Curmudgeon At Large

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,411
    Location:
    Same trailer, different park, FL
    I wear 'Stich Darien Cordura pants and have no trouble moving on a leather Corbin. I guess I've been doing that so long I lift a bit rather than just slide. Out of habit I do the same if I am wearing jeans.
    #32
  13. Usk Coastie

    Usk Coastie Adventurer

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Oddometer:
    90
    Location:
    NE Washington/Pacific Coast of Mexico
    Leif check out JTS Biker of UK. I just got a set of their gear for my Fat A##. Their pants come in 3 - 4 lengths depending on style. Be aware that if you purchase from them you'll get an additional Customs Duty tacked on that is not displayed on the check out page. You'll be called by the freight forwarder for payment of duties. That said order to reciept was three weeks to west coast US.
    #33
  14. Sidecardoug

    Sidecardoug Pleasantly pleasing

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Oddometer:
    1,796
    Location:
    Raincity, Warshington
    I dress the same for threes as two wheels
    #34
  15. Billtr96sn

    Billtr96sn Flange Furtler

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Oddometer:
    393
    Location:
    Somerset, UK
    I am sorry to go against the flow, but if you take ATGATT too far then you will start to wear full armour when you are walking on the pavement!

    If you are constantly worried about coming off r being hit then you wont enjoy your ride.
    Stop worrying and enjoy.
    #35