Signs of the times

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by dduelin, May 1, 2012.

  1. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    Yeah. You just proved to yourself and your equally closed-minded friends how "smart" you are by buying into, and parroting back, the "correct" views and stances.

    Liberalism is kinda like that. To be a smart liberal, you need not be smart...just keep babbling the daily Talking Points.
    #21
  2. topless

    topless Been here awhile

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    you misunderstand my point. Global warming is not a man made occurrence. Nowhere on Earth is a thermostat that keeps our weather the same, so until there is, blaming man is no more than a way to control people. Electric power is only clean at the point of usage.
    I only point out that my choice of house and vehicles has zero to do with my concern of climate change and everything to do with practicality and fun.
    My son has a degree in Enviromental Biology, so unlike some people you simply copy and paste bs they read, I have some science information first hand. Also, I have worked around power plants for 30years and seen the developement of cleaning the emissions of coal fired plants. Some of which was needed when they burned high sulfur coal. However, plants today are being hammered with unrealistic Co2 standards with no time to comply. The EPA is out of control and needs to be eliminated and replaced by an agency that has Congressional oversight.
    One last point, you cannot burn anything on this planet that wasn't living plant matter at some point. Unless you want no heat, cooling, or lights, then keep you stupid, ignorant,uniformed opinions to yourself.
    #22
  3. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    Don't confuse me with the New Luddite crowd. Before we had SUVs, we had steam locomotives - belching black smoke all over the place. And before THAT, we had uncontrolled forest fires...and volcanoes.

    The Earth somehow managed to survive. Point I'm making is, certain factions with ill designs are trying to whip up the idiots into a frenzy - with remarkable success. What these persons want, is not abolishment of big cars or barbecues...but the power of saying WHEN, saying who can have and who cannot.

    I'm not buying it; because the whole premise is false. The data has been skewed or calculated incorrectly; and we have had hot - and cold - periods before this.
    #23
  4. knucklehead90

    knucklehead90 Been here awhile

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    The levels of CO2 are nowhere near the 1% - much less the 5% you present as a hazard to humans. Its more like 390PPM currenty - thats 390 parts per MILLION. Not even close to 1%. Currently the percentage of C02 as a gas in the air is about 0.0390% - a far cry from even the 1% you attempt to present as a 'problem' for humans.

    But you're a good little liberal just trying to do your job - stretching facts and figures to try to make a case against a gas necessary for plant life to survive . So now - who's the knucklehead?

    Give me warming any day - I'd rather scooter to the store than snowmobile there.
    #24
  5. goezer

    goezer The Traveler

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    When all y'all point out semi-facts about how global CLIMATE CHANGE is BS.
    It is not.
    It is happening.
    Yes , all us 'liberals' know that warm and cool periods happened is the past.
    What is so different about this time?
    How fast the change is happening.
    When I lived in Phoenix two years ago, I worked with a man who grew up there in the 50's and 60's. He remembered walking to school in Sept bundled up against the cold.
    Now all of Sept is just more hot summer. People don't turn off the AC at home until late Oct or Nov.
    Its seems that unless the new green alternatives don't work exactly as well as the old tech," Fuck It! I Ain't Changn' Nuthin!
    I'm Gonna Drive My 396 Chevelle Forever!"
    110 years ago, them newfangled horseless carriage thingamabobs were about the dumbest creations ever.
    20 years later things were a little more advanced, weren't they?
    I think most of us will be driving electric cars before we die. And we will find a way to overcome the powerplant pollution problem (three times fast) too.
    I just hope it happens before the tipping point happens if it hasn't already.
    #25
  6. topless

    topless Been here awhile

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    Again, you speak of climate change as though through thousands of years the Earth has been the same temperature. It hasn't. 1200 years ago, they raised oranges in England, mined silver in the Alps, and farmed Greenland. Then the Earth cooled and it still hasn't warmed back to the same levels as 1200 years ago. BTW, I grew up in the 50's-60's too. I remember playing outside in a tee shirt in Feb when I was in grade school. I also remember pheasant hunting in -45 degrees in the first week of November in the mid-80's Get a grip and enjoy the nice weather. The attempts of liberals to stop the rest of us from having fun is beginning to annoy me.
    #26
  7. knucklehead90

    knucklehead90 Been here awhile

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    Personal observations prove nothing. Especially when removed from the events being recollected over long distances of time. He remembered walking to school in Sept bundled up against the cold. I'll bet he recalls walking in foot deep snow to and from school in November thru February too. Instead of taking subjective information from a single source maybe you should look at the 'facts' for yourself. Weather Underground has a very easily search-able data base - you can look for yourself. For example - Sept 15th (for any year of record) the average high is 89 - for Sept 15th 1950 the high was 80. It appears this gentleman's recollection is a bit awry - or maybe he really did have to bundle up against that 80 degree day?

    Objective records beat subjective recollections every time which is why we can call them 'facts'.

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    #27
  8. rv-rick

    rv-rick Been here awhile

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    Doesn't anyone else remember the big news of the late '70s?

    All of the wacko "news" papers and magazines were all a-flutter about the coming ice age. :huh

    They didn't know what they were talking about then, and still don't; Algore to the contrary notwithstanding.
    (BTW: His movie has been proven wrong by so many people on so many points that it should be filed under fiction.)

    If you recall in the mid-forties, (before my time, barely) some were saying that dropping the A-bomb would contaminate the entire earth. That was the beginning of the "nuclear winter scenario."

    As was true all along man's time on earth, we still don't know what we don't know.
    #28
  9. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    Winter of 1951-52 was warm in the East, too. My folks, later (1970s) owned property on a lake in New York State. Typically it would freeze over about Dec. 1; but that year it never did freeze.

    Somehow, the population didn't panic; and people didn't ban cars or home heating or gasoline sales. In fact, the proof we had was illustrative of the good cheer involved.

    A photo was taken from what later became our property; showing the last remaining 1890s steamboat on that lake, chartered for a special trip to that particular bay twenty miles from town, up close by "our" shore. A predecessor to the Polar Bear Club was having a diving/swimming display...January 31.

    No...these trends have happened and always will. But the duplicitous will always use the gullible; and Man's lust for power, political and other, is insatiable.
    #29
  10. seraph

    seraph asshole on a scooter

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    Ah, yes, I, too, am going to post about how much smarter I am than the scientists who have dedicated their lives to this because I read an article, once, on the Internet.

    Global warming or not,
    breathing exhaust fucking sucks
    and the less of it out there the better we are.
    #30
  11. topless

    topless Been here awhile

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    Then hold your breath.
    #31
  12. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    How about the scientists who've declared it a hoax?

    If you take a list of "scientists" who're on the Global "Warming" bandwagon; and a list of climate scientists who are taking government money for their work...you'll find pretty much the same list.

    Scientists are like anyone else that way - many of them can be bought.
    #32
  13. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    Eating excrement, "sucks," too. But there are organisms dedicated to doing just that.

    Excrement is part of life; and life works around it and uses it.

    "Exhaust" is just a form of the byproduct of combustion. You know, like forest fires...necessary and vital to woodland health and survival. Plants USE carbon dioxide; without it they DIE. And everything with them.

    Confusing science with emotion; and then coming up with junk-science; can also cause a lot of death.
    #33
  14. knucklehead90

    knucklehead90 Been here awhile

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    Sorry about the edit job - doesn't cussing just make one look unwashed and uneducated?

    Anyway - ever heard the term 'hide the decline'? Maybe you haven't - but those boys over in England at CRU certainly have - after all they wrote that very phrase in their very own emails that were outed in 2009 discussing how they were going to 'hide the decline'. Now these boys are 'scientists' if you believe what they say. I say any scientist worth their salt doesn't hide anything - good or bad. Why try to hide the decline? Because it did not fit their agenda. And whats the decline they were discussing? Why the decline in average world temps of course. I linked to Wikipedia so you could familiarize yourself with CRU - and justs for sh*ts and giggles I've linked to an article in ConservaPedia so you could read some of the many examples of how Wikipedia is often biased when it comes to Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW). Do try to read it. After all - I read that Wiki article.

    So...is the world warming? By any measure - yes - just not recently. Has the warming taken a 15 year hiatus? Seems it has - and even declined a bit. Is there any reason to lie about it? Only if your vested interests lay in AGW being fact. Since the groups most likely to gain from AGW are scientists politicians and their cronies (taxes and business and grants) does it make sense that these two groups would work hand-in-hand to 'hide the decline'? Of course - there is just too much money in it for each group.

    For the record I'm as equally skeptical when it comes to oil funded AGW. They also have their agenda. Neither group seems to have my agenda in mind - the TRUTH.

    Real scientists don't make up numbers to hide anything. The facts are CO2 levels in the atmosphere have risen from .034 to .039 parts per million the past 30 years - warming has declined almost one degree Celsius since 1996. The Pacific Ocean temperatures are on a slight decline over all. The Arctic ice is melting as we speak - and have been for the past 10,000 years - ever since that last ice age ended. The sun didn't come out with a BANG suddenly and temps rise to exactly an average of what we find 100 years ago - hardly - but you know these things.

    These are facts - along with the CRU's attempts to 'hide the decline'. If you wish to 'offset your carbon footprint' be my guest - but don't expect me to follow - its a fools errand. And Al Gore knows it. He just wanted to be the richest man in the world and is/was willing to screw every man woman and child in the USA to achieve his goals. He's a con man - why else does he avoid debating 'settled science'? Cause he's got a losing hand and he knows it.

    Want to discuss warming? Don't come up with 'well there was this guy who was a kid living in Phoenix in the 50's and 60's' crap - subjective memory is just that - subjective. Scrap book stuff at best. Facts are what is important in a discussion - 'hiding the decline' is a distortion of facts - more precisely it should be called lying - fraud if you get public money for distorting 'facts'. Put the CRU crew in jail - that'll cure the 'hiding the decline'. Lets deal in facts - even though they may end a few careers.

    And to avoiding breathing exhaust fumes - move out of Seattle. The most liberal city in the state. Why do you think I avoid visiting there whenever I can? And I have two kids living there.
    #34
  15. btcn

    btcn Long timer

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    hugemoth huh, not bad. I think they says is use a heat pump above 40 degrees [for y'all don't know what that is its basically using the AC Compressor with a 3 way reversing valve. The condenser [during AC the hot coil] becomes the evaporator [the normal AC cold coil]. The compressing of refrigerant creates heat itself, but the principal is the outside coil collects heat and brings [pumps] it to the warm inside coil. This makes it far more efficiant than a resistance heater. This is common in electric home heaters [many Central AC units also is heat pumps], and many office rooftop ACs are heatpumps as well. Even some winder air conditioners have a heat pump mode. They work quite well.

    Still, electric cars face the issue about power companies obvious inability to make enuff power. And worst of all range.


    goezer there ain't no global warming no time soon. Climates change cause them sun and weather is always different. I don't think no exhaust will change nothing. And I won't NEVER drive no electric car. I'd rather ride a horse as my main transportation, which ain't that bad for short distances. I'll never drive nothin but my bike, scoot and truck. I guarantee unless gas prices hit over $15 I'll still drive my 460CI F250. If I need to get far I got a 60 MPG Shadow and 85 MPG Elite 150.
    #35
  16. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    That horse is just MURDER on the environment!

    First...it's not an indigenous species to North America. It's disrupting the FOOD CHAIN!

    Then...all that methane...all that grass consumption...it's not NATURAL! it's going to DESTROY THE GRASSLANDS!

    And all this...because some people are just too LAZY to WALK!


    I share your reaction to the prospect of $15/gallon gasoline. There are two troubles with our reasoning, though: First, the direct cost of transportation, what we individually pay, is the smaller cost. The cost of getting our Cheerios to market, and getting our widgets that we build, to customers...that's the greater cost. Hits everyone, even if you live in a dormitory on the factory site.

    Second...seems the Really Bright Boys in Washington...are going to make GASOLINE UNUSABLE. How?...by mandating so much ETHANOL in it, that our bikes and cars won't WORK hardly at all on the rotgut slop! E15 is coming, fast...and scooters won't do well with it. Nor regular bikes. Nor cars...even the few marked "E85" very seldom actually USE E85. That stuff is BAD NOOZE; absorbing water and attacking rubber.

    No...no matter how independent we try to be...we're all at the mercy of society; government.
    #36
  17. seraph

    seraph asshole on a scooter

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    This was very useful advice.

    I didn't comment on which side of the global warming debate I fell on. Certainly, yes, you can find a big group of scientists who take money from vested interests that are seeking to sell global warming. You can also find a big group of scientists who take money from vested interests that are trying to counter them. There are a few billion dollar organizations on both sides, and I'm afraid I haven't spent my life studying climates so it's hard for me to sift through both sides. I imagine the same is true for all of us in this thread: we're armchair scientists at best and at the mercy of what people backed by vested interests are telling us.

    I wasn't built to eat shit and I also wasn't built to breathe smoke. Plants use CO2 but not CO or any number of other gases that come out of a tailpipe. Refined petroleum products haven't been burned naturally so this sort of argument doesn't quite carry over to this discussion. Unless you have a wood-burning Vespa!

    My comments above indicate my feelings on a lot of this. Honestly, I am prone to believe that global warming is probably happening and is probably influenced (not caused) by the things we as modern civilization burn. HOWEVER - and this is a big however - I don't really care, at least when it comes to vehicle emissions.

    There are a lot of other reasons to reduce emissions. Air pollution is real - to the point that you can see it, as smog. And, discussion oil in particular, there are a lot of bad people that make money off oil. OPEC's pricing scheme is based on what Saudi Arabia needs to fund their government. I think we can all agree that giving them less of our money is beneficial for the US. Oil companies and oil speculators make billions of dollars a year in profits - from us. We could keep that money for ourselves if we needed less gas. Screw them. Now, cars and motorbikes are such a tiny fraction of this that they're barely worth discussing.

    I will say that using CRU as a reason to debunk all pro-global-warming science is misguided. They are but one group, and I'm sure you can find just as many that never exchange internal emails about covering up data. But not everyone has gotten hacked!

    As for the comments about moving out of cities: you'll have to tell that to me and 166 million other Americans. And if we did all move out of our cities we'd come burn gas near your farm and turn your farm into a gassy city. Be careful what you wish for!


    Now, I'm backing out of this. Call it cowardice for leaving a debate - I don't care. I don't post here to get sucked into heated political debates, I post here because I freakin' love riding scooters. It wasn't me that posted last night - it was the bourbon! Never again!

    Also, Seattle is definitely not the most liberal city in Washington. Bellingham is. Or Olympia (the non-government part).
    #37
  18. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    Probably - judging by your level of information - you don't know this.

    There's a helluva lot of carbon monoxide in wood smoke. Yes, even campfires. And wood-stove fires.

    That, too, is a natural part of burning the cellulose that is "wood."
    #38
  19. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    I just noticed this.

    You have no rides in your signature.

    What bikes do you ride?

    How do you get around? City bus?

    Why are you here? Paid by the letter..."Stimulus" money?
    #39
  20. seraph

    seraph asshole on a scooter

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    If you clicked on my profile, viewed my post history, or looked at my avatar, you might realize I have a scooter.
    #40