Signs you need a new clutch slave cylinder 1150GS

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by Sniperx, Nov 12, 2013.

  1. Y E T I

    Y E T I Unpossible

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    Yup. :nod We went through this a few months ago. Unfortunately, the OP doesn't have the pictures anymore so we can't re-create the thread.

    I guess you'll need to do it SniperX! Take lots of pictures. :deal
    #21
  2. Sniperx

    Sniperx Been here awhile

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    Hmmmm....A chance to give back.....I may do JUST that.
    #22
  3. Sniperx

    Sniperx Been here awhile

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    Right, I saw this on the parts break down too. How does the power go from the crank to the transmission without having this slave cylinder in between?

    [​IMG]

    See the drive shaft connects to the right of the crankshaft inside the engine. THe power does make a right turn out of the engine, into the trans, and then down the driveshaft to another right turn into the FD.
    #23
  4. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    The slave pushes the rod through the shaft and into the clutch pressure plate.

    [​IMG]
    Shaft coming through the trans.

    [​IMG]
    The shaft pushes on the pressure plate directly.

    [​IMG]
    Here you can see the other side where the slave goes.

    [​IMG]
    The pressure plate where the rod contacts it.




    This might help too: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314290

    Jim :brow
    #24
  5. marchyman

    marchyman DR and GS

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    What Jim said. The shaft goes through the transmission and clutch plate, pushing against the spring on the engine side of the clutch. That's why your clutch fluid rises as the clutch wears.
    #25
  6. Sniperx

    Sniperx Been here awhile

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    AHA! Looking at the micros didn't help much except to establish the path. Now that I see how the rod comes into play it makes sense.

    You guys probably won't know this, but its like an old Austin Mini.
    #26
  7. vintagerider

    vintagerider Long timer

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    I wonder if they shipped yours with the wrong fitting. Many have used the Spiegler clutch hose with no issue other than the one noted by me... the bend requires that you kick it out some so that the banjo does not contact the gear case.

    You are correct, the Spiegler clutch hose (unlike the oem rubber brake hoses) is no better than oem, just considerably less $$. Reasons to replace the oem clutch hose are: i) lower banjo has rusted ii) hose has been contaminated internally from gear oil leaking past the input shaft rear seal iii) 2" over fits better
    #27
  8. flatland964

    flatland964 Been here awhile

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    Yes, I assumed they were also going to tell me that they accidentally built it with the wrong fitting, but they never did. There response to my email explaining the problem was: "I have sent this over to R&D to take a look at. We have sold this exact line numerous times and have never had this issue come up. I will be in touch as soon as they respond to me." I never heard any more from them so I returned the line.

    Don't get me wrong. I have used Spiegler brake lines on two bikes without a hitch. Everything was perfect. That's why I have always been curious about what the problem was here.

    Here is the pic I sent them:

    [​IMG][/url][/IMG]

    Anyway, sorry, I don't mean to throw the thread off subject.
    #28
  9. AntonLargiader

    AntonLargiader Long timer

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    I have a new Spiegler line here to replace a rusted one. The stock hose has a 6mm banjo and the Spiegler banjo is 9mm thick. Only 2.5 threads of engagement on the bolt.. :(

    Sigh. I'll probably end up grinding the fitting thinner.

    Come on, Spiegler. I thought you were the GOOD ones. What can't the aftermarket just duplicate the fit of the stock parts?
    #29
  10. vintagerider

    vintagerider Long timer

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    Looks like Spiegler days have come to an end. Time to make new connections in the far east.
    #30
  11. Sniperx

    Sniperx Been here awhile

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    Whelp, ripped into it this weekend.

    I'm sorry, I didn't take any pictures. The whole thing was pretty straight forward and the text was plenty to get the job done.

    Looked exactly like all the pictures....a big gunky mess.

    The pushrod was bone dry. I washed the felt in parts cleaner spray until it stopped coming out brown. I lubed the shaft with lithium grease. I packed the new bearing with FLM moly grease.

    COuple words to the next intrepid wrencher. The exhaust comes off in two piece, a small shield near the center stand leg and the muffler. Take the muffler out of the shield...it will probably be a fight. Make sure you tighten the banjo fittings. When you think you're about to strip it out...crank it a little more. I thought I had it only to have fluid squirting out everywhere. Even when I retightened...I watched...it was still weeping. Test for leaks BEFORE putting it in its place and screwing it down. Its much easier to see the banjos and what is going on before you put it in. When changing the input seal, good luck....getting that little bitch out took the longest of the whole project. I went through 1.75 small bottles of fluid when bleeding and charging. Clean out the reservoir before and during your flush...use a paintbrush and Q-tips.

    Observations: Is it just me, or is that thrust bearing on the end under constant pressure and ALWAYS turning? Unlike a normal inline throw out bearing that is only engaged when the clutch is pressed. That little dab of assembly lube is a joke for a constant running bearing. The guy at the dealer said "they are self lubricating"...to my knowledge only teflon bearings are self lubing.

    Speed bleeders, and probably all automotive bleeders, are a little too long for the BMW bleeder system. They hit the ball before the threads engage. Grind or file the point a little bit until it starts to work properly. They also don't seem to seal so they're good for flushing and getting the whole process started, but when it comes down to the final purge you may want to do the standard open/close procedure to make sure no air is slipping past the threads into the system. I used a couple winds of gas pipe teflon tape (the yellow one..thicker) on the threads near the end. Don't squeeze and release the lever too quickly or the stuff squirts out the reservoir half way across your garage. Plan on the project taking 4 hours. It probably won't take this long, but unforseen delays...leaks, shaft seal fight, exhaust stuck...etc.

    I'm going to disect the old one and see whats going on in there...
    #31
  12. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    Good info. Too bad no photos.

    Just to add to what you said: Yes, clean everything. If your hose has dirty brown fluid in it you should change it. Speed Bleeders, IMHO, do not work well for this. You can fill from the slave end with a syringe, or normal pumping. Place the lid of a plastic water bottle (dry) upside down in the clutch reservoir to prevent squirting, or remove the rubber and set the lid back on.

    Jim :brow
    #32
  13. Sniperx

    Sniperx Been here awhile

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    Yeah, I debated on changing the hose, but in the end, I just decided to flush the line out without the slave attached then just dump fluid through it before finishing up. I wanted to use naphtha or something to clean it out, but I didn't want to hurt the seals. A change will probably be coming up in the near future as the elbow was pretty rusty. I didn't feel like ripping into all that. If I have a failure....I'll take pics this time. Having a dead camera battery, no gloves, and a desire to get the thing done ended up defeating the photo plans.
    #33
  14. Sniperx

    Sniperx Been here awhile

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    Also, word to future workers...

    The guide warns of dropping things behind the swing arm. Don't worry about it...I dropped tons of stuff back there on this project...it falls out on top of the cat and you can flick it out with a screwdriver. Lost everything back there...washers, screws, the gasket....everything came out fine.
    #34
  15. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool

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    Sorry I'm late to this thread.
    That's how they sell new ones :deal:lol3
    See my post here:

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20355637&postcount=27



    <table id="post20355637" class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td class="alt2" style="border: 1px solid #575757; border-top: 0px; border-bottom: 0px" width="175"> <sup></sup>
    Pepperfool

    [​IMG]

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    Location: British Columbia
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    </td> <td class="alt1" id="td_post_20355637" style="border-right: 1px solid #575757"> Dark fluid as reported = failed slave cylinder (piston is spinning due to failed release bearing) no amount of flushing is going to fix. Too late.
    When the slave is pulled there will be a dark sludge in the cavity and the slave end. It looks like grease but it is water soluble (product of brake fluid leakage) be sure to clean out completely.

    BB has good price on slave cylinders that are the exact OEM Magura replacement.

    Before installing be sure to check the new slave release bearing for adequate grease.
    I find almost every new one from BMW has just a tiny dab of grease often not even touching the balls (automated greasing?)
    Add high temp wheel bearing grease with a Q tip and work around ensuring that all the balls are well greased.
    That wee bearing is spinning all the time! :eek1

    While in there be sure to cut back the neoprene sleeve that partially covers the pressure line coming down from the clutch lever.
    It typically holds water in it and will eventually rust out the elbow above the banjo. Cut back about 1"

    As far as bleeding the system goes I push the brake fluid up from the bottom the way BMW does it at the factory.
    A modified brake bleed screw (pushes the ball) and a syringe does the job. Some find bleeding a dry clutch system frustrating, this method takes 2 minutes. :wink: Cover the open clutch reservoir with a rag as fluid will shoot up when it arrives!
    Do not over fill, as the clutch wears the reservoir level rises (opposite of the brake system)

    Note: I believe that greasing the release bearing is as important as regularly flushing brake fluid.
    My original slave cylinder is at 254,000km. I change my fluid every year and have re-lubed the bearing 3 times.


    Notice the dry balls in upper picture, this is typical of what I have seen.
    [​IMG]



    Detail on how to trim the neoprene sleeve. This is a near new cable and the rust is just starting. Most times rust has progressed much further by the time I see them
    [​IMG]



    Reverse bleed, also works great when installing SS Brake lines
    [​IMG]
    </td></tr></tbody></table>
    #35
  16. Sniperx

    Sniperx Been here awhile

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    Thanks, I knew I saw reference to the dollop before. It seemed silly and that all the grease would be pushed past the bearing by the pushrod. Its also important, as you said, that this bearing is always turning...meaning it needs some top shelf attention.
    #36
  17. bemiiten

    bemiiten League of Adventures

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    Pretty amazing that bearing last as long as it does spinning turn for turn with the crankshaft.
    #37
  18. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool

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    Totally agree!
    #38
  19. vintagerider

    vintagerider Long timer

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    Sniperxs said: ["Make sure you tighten the banjo fittings. When you think you're about to strip it out...crank it a little more. I thought I had it only to have fluid squirting out everywhere. Even when I retightened...I watched...it was still weeping."]

    Did you use four new crush gaskets on the slave banjos? Should not have to go over the specified torque- doing so could damage those expensive banjo bolts or strip the slave. Could be that the banjos were not positioned correctly as I noted in the beginning of the thread.

    Did you use a slide hammer to yank the input shaft rear seal or levers?

    I don't care for the oem check valve on the bleed hose. A standard bleeder replaced it just fine (melted the thread lock by heating check valve with pin torch). I saw no need to back fill the sys to purge air... as I mentioned in the beginning checking for leaks and bleeding is best done prior to re-attaching slave to gear box. DOT 3 is cheap and works best for flushing the master (hose detached from slave) and for leak-checking and bleeding. DOT 4 was used after after final assembly.
    #39
  20. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool

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    Agreed, I have never had to use excessive torque on the many systems I have done.
    Never had a leak either.
    I have even reused crush washers (when new was not available) with great success, but they must be annealed first.
    #40