Single 320MM rotor and fancy brake on the 950?

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by Ricardo Kuhn, Nov 27, 2004.

  1. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

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    talking with my friend Mark today about the possibility of mounting a 320MM Full floating rotor from a supermotard kit plus a sofisticated 4 piston caliper(I don't remenber the brand the are anodize gold but they are not brembo) my head got to wonder, the funny part is that I happend to be at a motorcycle hang out and a ktm 525 was park right next to my bike...

    well to make the story short,,aparentlly (i did not have a accurate way to measure) the rotor bolt pattern and Inner diameter size(hub flange) are the same,also the mount for the brake caliper features a extremlly similar bolt pattern and overall shape,,ergo if you can install a motard kit on the 525EXC you can also do it on the 950 hopefully improving the performance of the braking in a big way..

    at the stage this is pure gestimation and wishful thinking,,so please if you have a way to get the accurate data post it here or even better if you know anybody that ever try it..get some feetback

    I just don't think the lammeAss caliper that comes with the 950 is sufficient to stop the bike propertlly specially with a single rotor and then again i live for the last 10 years with the same stupid caliper in the back of the GS and let me tell you they do NOT have a Happy and trouble free life..

    thanks in advance..
    #1
  2. Greg Minor

    Greg Minor The Trespasser

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    Some one on the board was working on this. I forget who
    #2
  3. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

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    Good.....

    Mark is getting one him self so hopefully i will have something to report soon.
    #3
  4. jdiaz

    jdiaz .

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    I thought you showed a picture from someone at the Lake Elsinore race last year that had a single disc on a 950?

    Jon
    #4
  5. barbasma

    barbasma 100% CAROTONE

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    hi ricardo

    the LC4ADV front single disc and caliper (with the distancial) fit perfectly on 950... :thumb

    i will go too to this solution with a set of excel rims
    #5
  6. KTMax

    KTMax Ninth of the Nazgul

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    When you're not using your 950 for 80% off road or more (but then, why would you buy a 950 in the first place?) I don't understand this mod.

    For Meoni & Co. who ride their bikes through the desert and nothing else it does make sense IMO. The rally bikes have a small and light(er) 300mm rotor from the enduro models with the standard Brembo 2-pot we have too. A big 320 floating rotor with a 4-pot caliper won't shave off much unsprung weight. BTW, a floating rotor requires fixed mounting of the 4-pot caliper. Not the stock floating caliper setup.

    The stock twin disk arrangement of the 950 is ok-to-good for street use but nothing more. Not nearly as good as the achors on the 12GS for instance. Amputating half the stopping power doesn't make much sense IMO. I don't think the 950 is a bike with a 'surplus' of brakes to say the least. A single 320 & 4-pot will bring back some of the lost power but by the time it gets up to the level of the stock brakes it'll suffer the same downsides off road too. But then together with the other downsides of a single disk setup too. Possible heat problems with street use but for sure handlebars pulling to one side on the brakes and twisting and flexing of the forks.

    Years of Supermotards learned me all the virtues of single disk setups. :bluduh With the same 48mm WP USD forks btw...
    #6
  7. katoom_950

    katoom_950 Life, 2 short 4 traffic

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    The brake kit you refer to Ricardo is a Beringer unit.
    #7
  8. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

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    Brake caliper and Spokes:nono

    the 4 piston calipers are ussually widder for ovius reasons, also most of them are use on cast type wheels with narrower "Spokes" or use on motard aplications were the smaller wheels make for far less vertical spokes ergo they are farder from rotor making the wide caliper a possibility..

    what you need for the 950 is a rework,,machine whatever you want to call it to achive this room. you can also get a really big rotor to place the caliper higher on the angle of the spokes but then you losse all the gyriscopic advantage since the rotor end up being super heavy,,specially when is moving..

    thanks mack for the information
    #8
  9. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

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    Nope,,I'm sure is not.

    the one we were thinking about is the one they sell for motards and they are long and skinny and very GOLD, in fact i'm pretty sure is sold on the "Hardpart" cataloge..
    #9
  10. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

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    KTMax I was sure you will come to the rescue,,exelent posting as ussual..

    more than anything my interest is to replace the Puppy look shelf brakes calipers that come with the bike with something a little more efficient,,for me the bigger rotor with the bigger rotating mass is just the price to pay for the clearance require for a widder caliper..

    My self I think I'm staying with the two rotor setup, since is more simetrical, in my view (impression) most people take the right caliper when they go to the high fender just because they do not know how to route the brake hose above the tyre, well hopefully that is soon to change,,i think I figure out a way(working on it) very pennytech but very clean to run the two hoses very well protected but not decreasing the mud clearance that much..

    still Interesting to see the diferent possibilies, I still think the calipers on the KTM are not that great, but also before you fix the brakes you need to make sure that the suspension can take it.

    thanks again for all the Input
    #10
  11. dagwood

    dagwood Banned

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    Then they are probably Brembo's or Braking calipers. I suspect all the KTM SM calipers are Brembo's. :nod actually pretty sure of it.
    #11
  12. mcoyote

    mcoyote Occam's Razorblade

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    I've heard this before and it's a little mystifying. On sport bikes, a common mod is to go to a "dual system" for the front brake, where there are two lines coming from the cylinder down to both sides of the wheel, eliminating the little jumper line from one caliper to the other.

    I have this system on my Hayabusa, and my impression was that this, along with the braided lines, improved feel quite a bit. Also, the fender is no longer an issue, which was a good thing when my disc lock trashed my stock fender and I went to a CF replacement that I had to drill myself.

    Couldn't you just go to a similar system on the nine-fiddy?
    #12
  13. Greg Minor

    Greg Minor The Trespasser

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    well why did you buy one :D I went to the single rotor for the weight savings and the fact that I have accidently locked up the front wheel a couple of times off road and almost planted my nose in the dirt. I have the second brake line that came with my fender kit so I can always put if back on for serious street duty. I don't think my 950 will see that much street use especially when I get my new 950 SM that will replace my Ducati. Hurry up KTM
    #13
  14. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

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    Totally..........:ricky

    aparentlly is a well proven fact that the sistems like the 950 that feature a "dual stage" present a fenomenom were the fluid act on one caliper first and then when the presure is build up on the "main" (first) the second one comes to play, the sistem you propose gives the same "Information" at exactlly the same time and more important equal power..

    I also think solving the hose routing is not a big deal and fact i'm sure is being done a few times already.
    #14
  15. Tim McKittrick

    Tim McKittrick Long timer

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    Given the rim problems a lot of us have had, I was wondering if anyone had investigated the possibility of using one of KTM's front wheel kits on the 950. These allready feature a better rim in a narrower width but only have a mounting flange for one rotor. It seems to me that if the wheel will work on our bikes and it can be used in conjuction with the larger supermotard single rotor and 4-pot caliper you could kill two birds with one stone. I would imagine the braking performance of the 4-pot set-up could easily rival the stock twin brake, and could shave off a few pounds.
    #15
  16. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

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    actually that is a great question (thanks Greg)

    Personally I got the 950 because I feel I was reaching the outer edge of the GS suspension capavilities:wave Bert..to be my "Dirtbike" more than my street bike..and then keep the GS's for transporting loads and do long tours were dirt is less of a component.

    but now that the swingarm broke on the 950, i'm scare of pushing the bike in the dirt, maybe i just need to get over it and hope the swing arm will never fail again or take mine apart and do a proper heat treatment to avoid stress rissers or maybe figure out a shock that will work better to take the loads,,

    i don't know.. so far I just DO NOT trust the bike and i check it for cracks on it everytime I ride it..

    also I got to ride R-dubb's 450EXC yesterday and for sure that is a bike you can trash all you want,(if you take care of the engine),maybe i did not know better or i just don't want to get into this whole car, trailer, transport crap, but for sure this bike remind me of my bicycle days,,hell my old "Intense M-1" downhill bike feel slower to turn and track that this beautyful orange monster.
    #16
  17. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

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    Tim you got me.... :gun2

    that is the idea i have to find a EXC wheel(maybe even a LC4) already build since so many people upgrade to the typical talon/excel conbination and dish the wheel in a way that the hub will be on center,(aling with the caliper and space propertlly)

    I still need to check the bearing size but even then that can be fix or at least circunvent..
    #17
  18. wesfnw

    wesfnw portland,or

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    #18
  19. XRsLug

    XRsLug Been here awhile

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    :snore :snore :snore

    Love these contributions to the thread, keep 'em coming... :rolleyes
    #19
  20. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

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    Stonned...nope I'm not but sometimes I wish i was

    first of all the load on the KTM was nothing compare to the kind of things I carry for years on my GS's with out any trouble

    something like this including the girlfriend is what I call loaded

    [​IMG]

    I do admite that I load the bike a little to much and that I crash it on the most stupid way,,,just remenber static loads are nothing in comparations with the dinamics loads generated by dirt or even hard street riding jumps, sideways tracks and more than that bad landings.
    let see from the botoom i have
    • the GOBI bags with about 15 sets of fastway footpegs(very small capacity as you all know.(no more than 15pound i believe)
    • the red bags is full of clothes, my sleeping bag,a mini 3 pound tent, etc for a two week trip(MOA to Ouray)
    • the black pelikan case was pretty heavy,,some tools, some cataloges, my lap top,,I don't think more than 30 pound of load..
    • on the very back my therma rest
    • on the very top my back pack almost empty since I was ussing it to carry the clothes i will use during the trip(thermal layers)
    • tank panniers,,right fill with water, left with extra tube and simple tools
    • tank bag with my small camara ,some bananas and a bottle of orange juice ...oh and some maps

    seriuslly i don't think was that much,just look kind of crazy. certainlly less than a full size person will be
    [​IMG]

    so far at least two other swingarms fail that we can prove ,,i also know of two others but so far no way to prove them,,maybe I was the first one but sadlly i'm not the last one..

    Only time will tell, I just hope will never happend to me again, since will be a little to much to take and i be saving my money to buy the NEW GS since they never ever let me down at least not this way .

    don't take me wrong the KTM is a incredible well made bike so reinforce and porpuse build inspire confidence all over,,maybe that is why i'm so perplex that this happend.
    I was just sure this toy will last me for ever, no matter what i did to her..

    yeah maybe I was asking a little to much.
    #20