Small Bike/Monkey Bike Supercharger

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by Dirt Road Cowboy, Aug 7, 2014.

  1. Dirt Road Cowboy

    Dirt Road Cowboy Sometimes I'm A Jerk

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2011
    Oddometer:
    513
    Location:
    Tyler, Texas
    #1
  2. Chillis

    Chillis Land Barge Pilot

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,228
    Location:
    Spring Mountain Range
    I love stuff like this.

    Supercharged Symba or Trail, anyone?

    $700 for a bolt on kit is not expensive, IMO.
    #2
  3. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Oddometer:
    768
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    This is pretty cool but I can't help but wonder how an engine would hold up with the extra boost? My thinking is its not something you would want if you are at all concerned about long term reliability.
    #3
  4. Chillis

    Chillis Land Barge Pilot

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,228
    Location:
    Spring Mountain Range
    Probably able to handle just fine. As long as you are not exceeding valve train speed and everything still gets oil.
    #4
  5. Human Ills

    Human Ills Useful Idiom

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Oddometer:
    24,048
    Location:
    South (Dog help me) Bay
    Blown grom possible?
    #5
  6. wheelbender6

    wheelbender6 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2013
    Oddometer:
    172
    Location:
    Houston area
    Superchargers seem to work well on the Ford Mustangs.
    Adding a supercharger to a scooter or motorcycle is tougher
    than adding one to a car because there is no existing external belt system
    (no fan belt).
    Something that has a primary drive belt, like a harley, would provide the least difficulty.
    #6
  7. Oldenuftaknowbetter

    Oldenuftaknowbetter Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Oddometer:
    821
    Location:
    Fresno, CA

    Wrong. Turbocharging or supercharging radically increases power and thus puts tremendous strain on pistons, rods, main and rod bearings, and crankshafts. Forced induction also has an effect like radically increasing compression, so self destruction due to pre-detonation is likely unless actual piston compression is reduced or knock sensors and sophisticated computerized engine controls are used.

    Turbo or supercharging is viable in factory oem set ups because every part of the engine and it's management systems are engineered for them by the factory, and even then they haven't always had the same longevity as normally aspirated engines.

    A kit like this, if it doesn't include beefier bottom end engine components etc, looks like a great way to increase performance for a very short time before the engine "grenades".
    #7
  8. Chillis

    Chillis Land Barge Pilot

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,228
    Location:
    Spring Mountain Range
    These are heavy duty little engines for their meager output. I would add an oil cooler for extra capacity and that is it.

    These aren't engines that are tuned to the ragged edge of performance stock.
    #8
  9. Chillis

    Chillis Land Barge Pilot

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,228
    Location:
    Spring Mountain Range
    If you can upgrade fuel management. Check YouTube for turbo Groms. It has already been done, without the disastrous results.
    #9
  10. Oldenuftaknowbetter

    Oldenuftaknowbetter Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Oddometer:
    821
    Location:
    Fresno, CA
    The same thing was said about the Oldsmobile 350 V8 that GM converted to diesel some years ago.

    The Grom hasn't been out long enough for anyone to wear out yet. If you want to halve the life of your motor with some boy-racer mods, go right ahead.
    #10
  11. JohninVT

    JohninVT Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Oddometer:
    764
    Location:
    Vermont
    You realize that turbochargers and super chargers have been in widespread use since the 1920's, right? You can adjust boost pressure. Adding a turbo or supercharger doesn't automatically turn an engine into a Palestinian alarm clock.
    #11
  12. Pugsley/Hobbfather

    Pugsley/Hobbfather Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Oddometer:
    415
    Location:
    Barnard, VT
    And even if it did halve the life, after 20 years, you may not notice. My Cl90 still works after 40 and those look pretty hard.
    #12
  13. Chillis

    Chillis Land Barge Pilot

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,228
    Location:
    Spring Mountain Range
    Sig line material. LMAO
    #13
  14. Motovista

    Motovista Parts is Parts

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Oddometer:
    507
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    Before World War Two, superchargers and turbochargers were allowed in MotoGP. After the war, they weren't. It's sort of like the turbine car at Indy. If they hadn't regulated them out of existence for racing, what would the street applications be like today?
    I've already got a use in mind for this thing.
    #14
  15. aalegado

    aalegado Team Gear Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Oddometer:
    477
    Location:
    Lost Wages, Nevahduh
    Wasn't the problem with that motor the head bolts being under-rated? The block itself was up to the task?
    #15
  16. RVDan

    RVDan Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Oddometer:
    2,776
    Location:
    Abbotsford British Columbia Canada
    No kit for the grom :(

    The grom is awesome except for the inability to hold highway speed.
    #16
  17. JerryH

    JerryH Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    5,069
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    Absolutely correct. I learned that from building high powered moped engines. Getting 5-7 hp out of an engine that was designed to make 2 hp. These engines would double your speed, with the right gearing, but I never had one last over 100 miles before it blew up.

    I have also seen a lot of people at the track blow up their stock car engines by installing a bolt on supercharger or using nitrous. A stock engine just can't handle the stress. As you said, if the engine is built from the ground up for it, it can be done. And you can do that with car engines. But no such parts exist for moped and motorcycle engines. It's just like squeezing a tomato. Squeeze it too much, and you know what happens.
    #17
  18. Chillis

    Chillis Land Barge Pilot

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,228
    Location:
    Spring Mountain Range
    BS.

    Your car and moped analogies are not apples to apples comparisons.

    Compare the integrity of the Honda engine in question and not some high strung 2 stroke that you ran wide open in the desert heat while exceeding the gross vehicle weight limit.

    The Honda engine is one of the most reliable engines ever made and is overbuilt.

    Since it is supercharged it is running a linear boost pressure that is minimal to none at idle.

    It is also incomparable to an Oldsmobile diesel conversion. How is the supercharged engine running approximately 18:1 compression ratio like a diesel engine?

    It cracks me up that the couple of naysayers think a heavy duty little Honda engine that makes 2 or 3 horsepower can't handle 5 to 6 without blowing to bits.

    They sleeved the same motors up for high capacity and guess what? They still sold them with full warranties. Also in ATC's and ATV's powering that extra weight and drive train. What the hell was Honda thinking selling all of these ticking time bombs.
    #18
  19. Moat

    Moat Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Oddometer:
    138
    Location:
    Mid-mitten
    The argument is silly, as it's incomplete. It depends entirely on how much of an increase in power over stock (i.e. - boost) any given turbo/supercharger system is set up to provide - and, of course, whether and how often that increase is used.

    An ample enough system set to limit boost so as to produce no more power than stock - the engine will go it's entire life without ever knowing the difference (but then... why bother? Altitude power loss, perhaps - such as many piston aircraft do).

    The same system, set to some (overly) high/maximum boost, could very easily grenade any engine the first time the throttle is rolled WFO.

    Then there's that great expanse of grey area between the two extremes - a twist of a screwdriver or tweak of the ECU away - that ultimately comes down to a compromise between engine longevity and power. There is no free lunch - period.
    #19
  20. JohninVT

    JohninVT Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Oddometer:
    764
    Location:
    Vermont
    What kills engines running aftermarket boost is usually; 1) too much boost. 2) too much compression. 3)poor heat management.

    Too much boost manifests itself as a rod poking through an engine case. Super chargers typically run lower psi than turbos. This makes engine management less important. Timing, on a low pressure supercharger, sometimes can be left stock without ill effect. The Grom has a 9.3:1 compression ratio. That's very low and in a car, you'd not see a ratio that low unless you were runnin 20+ psi in a water/meth cooled turbo install.

    A proper supercharger install nets a 30-40% gain in hp in most instances. There is nothing in the engine design of the Grom to really hinder a supercharger installation other than low oil capacity(heat management). The addition of an oil cooler would address that issue. Would I boost a Grom? Probably not. For 30%, which is 2hp, I'd toss in a 150cc Lifan engine and call it a day....but it sure would be cool to listen to a Grom with a supercharger whine! Prolly sound like an angry little vacumn cleaner.
    #20