So Here's My Clutch Disc

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by Dan Alexander, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    I don't have a pic of the pushrod ...yet.

    Thanks for all the help guys but it's time to end the suspense and go exploring.

    First I'm off to Tim Horton's for large double double :raabia

    :lurk
    #41
  2. jdub

    jdub Dawg bytes reel gud

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    That was also one of my thoughts, which I didn't convey well earlier. I thought by installing each part onto the bike in turn (gearbox onto the engine, then the pushrod through the rear, then the throwout bearing/actuating arm assembly) you'd have better visibility and control of each item to ensure they were going together properly. Just my $.02 worth......

    I just noted on the Max BMW on-line parts fiche for the R1100GS this note under Clutch Control (ref item #2, P/N 23 13 1 464 167): This part replaces the older throwout bearing AND piston. The 167 is a combined/sealed unit. When installing this part on your older clutch rod, there's a bushing that is not needed and must be removed. Otherwise, replace the clutch rod at the same time as it made for the new 167 part. This was one of my thoughts earlier: If somehow the clutch pushrod Dan has is not the correct one (too short?) for the bike's current throwout bearing/piston assembly.

    [​IMG]

    Sounds like Dan definitely noticed the difference in the sides of diaphram spring hole, so unlikely it's in backwards.
    #42
  3. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    Well I just pulled everything apart and the spring was installed properly. Now I need to order 6 new bolts and washers :becca

    When I push on the pushrod installed in the tranny all seems well, there's a bit of resistance from the throwout spring and it works smoothly. The pushrod is fine, I know I looked at it before reinstalling and didn't have any doubts about it's integrity

    So either the pushrod is too short or part of the throwout bearing is missing and it doean't make contact .... OR ..... my diaphragm spring is too worn out??? I did use the old one.

    Time to put the tranny on the bench and remove that bearing.
    #43
  4. H96669

    H96669 A proud pragmatist.

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    Diaphragm spring...I would have replaced that one right off the bat after finding such a clutch. Yep had to redo one after being cheap and only replacing the friction disk on an old airhead GS with exactly the same clutch setup.

    Heat degrades the spring tension. BMW used to give spring heights for reference on the older bikes, but they switched to a different diaphragm spring like yours with that big center washer thing now built right in....no more height specs, you'd need a newer one to compare.
    #44
  5. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    Yeah, I admit it, I tried to be cheap.

    Oh well, at least the labor is cheap :D

    Not to have any resistance at all, even with the adjuster nut fully screwed in must mean that spring is waaaay flat. Is that even possible?
    #45
  6. def

    def Ginger th wonder dog

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    It called memory loss...wait 'till your my age sonny...you learn all about.....

    ...what were we talking about???
    #46
  7. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    Gee it's nice to be called sonny at a tender age of 61


    I've been afflicted with the memory loss ever since the mid 60's :evil
    #47
  8. H96669

    H96669 A proud pragmatist.

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    Can't tell from your original pic on post 1. I'd say yes it does look a little flat. Maybe the same specs or close but I have a good one from an R100GS if you want to compare.

    Was looking at a clutch pack for a K on fleabay not long ago. Cheap and looked good but for the springs all blue at the tips.:eek1

    I could mock up mine back together on the airhead but not much time today for that. But don't you think that removing material from the plates when resurfacing without compensating for it with the thickness of the friction disk could also contribute to that from their design? :ear
    #48
  9. def

    def Ginger th wonder dog

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    Sounds reasonable? How much material did they remove?

    :scratch


    :lurk
    #49
  10. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    I'll measure the thickness of mine and post it.

    I'm not sure how much they removed but I did ask and they said they calculate it all when doing the friction material. They've been doing clutches since 1930 so you'd think they have it pretty well figured out.

    http://www.ottawaclutch.com/

    "We specialize in the remanufacturing of all
    Industrial and Automotive clutches, custom applications,
    Racing Clutches,
    Cranes and Overhead Cranes,
    Forklifts and Tow Motors,
    Mines, Mills and Quarries,
    Buses, Transit, Passengers Coach and School Buses,
    On and Off Road Heavy Equipment
    Winches, Draglines and Logging applications
    Farm Equipment and Agriculture application
    Truck and Trailer shoes and brake block sets
    Commercial laundry applications, shoes, bands and pads
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    Punch Press and Brake Press bands, shoes and clutches
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    #50
  11. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    Mine is slightly off level but the total thickness ranges from 15.85mm to 16.5mm

    Wonder if that is close to yours.

    Just read that RBRacing recommends using an 1150 spring instead of an 1100 as it's 2.00mm instead of the 1100's 1.75mm

    bottom of the page

    http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/bmw_clutches.html
    #51
  12. H96669

    H96669 A proud pragmatist.

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    Don't know if I'd believe any of the BS coming out of RBRacing.....:evil Well maybe for some tips but DON'T try to buy parts from them,they may not even exist yet.:lol3

    That one I have here is 15.6 so no comparisons there. But add them lost millimiters from parts wear...cable stretch etc...etc...may all add up to more than the adjustments can take. My old GS I could even see the actuating arm bend when applying the clutch, had to reinforce that.:eek1

    Got to wonder now if I could put it on the larger scale I just bought and see what it takes to compress it.May overload the 300lbs scale.:D Shop should be warm(er) by now.

    I'd replace that spring anyway,"off-level" is not that good that would introduce clutch chattering and uneven wear in the long term. Had to go back in my old GS just for that reason so now won't take any chances, clutch work= new spring. Got to be a reason why that lining got cooked to that point and that would create lots of heat, more than enough to weaken them springs.Doesn't take all that much heat to remove temper on spring steel, off the top of my head 650F is MAX for most of them.

    Interested in that anyway,reminds me of my youth dropping clutches & brakes at Asbestonos(?) in Quebec City and the smell in that shop. My K will probably need clutch work at 100,000 miles if I judge from my measurements at 20,000. I know that some have had theirs relined with success on the Ks, short term as "it works" but I haven't seen any long term reports.:ear
    #52
  13. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool

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    If slack is needed to take up, the 1150 pushrod is 12mm longer and can be machined down to fit.
    #53
  14. Twilight Error

    Twilight Error Going nowhere slowly

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    You got that right.

    A couple weeks ago, I called their tech support line with a question about whether the Street 360 or ceramic 4 paw clutch disc would be better for my riding style.

    I didn't even get to finish before the person on the other end interrupted and told me all the BMW clutches were still in development. I thanked her for her time and hung up.
    #54
  15. H96669

    H96669 A proud pragmatist.

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    RBRacing....haven't checked on them for 3 years or so but back then the parts were "under development".They'll develop them with customer's money it looks like.:evil If you go on their website there used to be some pretty funny comments from them about some of their customers. Enough to keep me away from them that's for sure.:lol3


    I just had another tought....did you lift the part number from mainly the spring but the other parts also? Should be stamped on most of them, BMW is good for that. Then punch that into the MaxBMW parts finder to see what it fits. Older machines, never know who could have gone in there and done some hacking/mismatching.:eek1

    I know for a fact that clutch parts mismatch is a big NO NO for some of the Ks. BMW switched suppliers at some point in the 90s. There are bulletins on that but I don't know if there are any for the R-GSs.

    If you feel inclined to dig through that , and there are a lot of bulletins to dig through, I'll send you a link as to where to look. I won't post it here but as a courtesy to a fellow Canadian....no problems.:wink:
    #55
  16. H96669

    H96669 A proud pragmatist.

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    :roflDo I have a spring test for you....:roflTakes 200 Lbs to flatten that spring. That means I can't do that just standing on it, I tried.:cry Gotta eat more.....:rofl

    Now why did I buy that scale......:rofl

    [​IMG]
    #56
  17. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    I wasn't quite as scientific but the 'heel on the spring on the scale' number got me about 135 pounds to flatten it. A lot different than 200# .... but I still don't think that's the non contact issue.
    #57
  18. H96669

    H96669 A proud pragmatist.

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    Need more pics of your parts. Engagement hole in the spring? them could wear out according to my manual.

    And the clutch lever behind the transmission? those do bend. Someone may just have taken up all the adjustments to keep that bike rolling and then bent it.Clutch sure looked....abused.:wink: I could see my lever flex by eye, had to reinforce it sticking a piece of alu pipe over it.

    135....does sound weak. Yes also did the heel dance on mine, no way I can flatten it. But I am only 170 with the winter gear on.

    Scientific......:roflFlunked all that to ride & wrench way back then. :lol3The near new "medical" scale from the Salvation Army. $3.99....I am cheap.:wink:
    #58
  19. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    I thought you'd like that 'scientific' :D

    I could compress it easliy with my heel but I'm 225

    I pulled the throwout bearing yesterday and checked the clutch arm and everything looks fine. That spring must be really compressed.

    I'm going to get a new spring and start fresh and see how that goes. Should I replace the throwout bearing too .. feels fine but I've read a couple of threads wehere the guys did a new clutch and 100 miles later that bearing is gone. I'm not thinking long term right now as I'm not sure if I'll keep the bike after I get it running. I may sell it and my Dakar for a 800GS or keep the both of them and ride one on the Alcan 5000 I'm registered for in 2014
    #59
  20. def

    def Ginger th wonder dog

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    Memory loss in the clutch spring not in yer noggin'...are you daft boy or have you forgotten we were talkin' about your clutch...Hmmmm, that fella is loosin' it.
    #60