So we've all heard/seen the 650 xchallenge...let's see your XCOUNTRY!

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Olas, Dec 3, 2007.

  1. DRONE

    DRONE Dog Chauffeur

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,190
    Location:
    Chambers Bay, WA
    Wunderlich - link
  2. purdsam

    purdsam Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Oddometer:
    66
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Thanks for the link. I'm glad you're still on the thread, sans XCo!
  3. snooker

    snooker AttitudeIsEverything

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,628
    Location:
    Loveland, Colorado
    ... and wasn't somebody saying you could get the XChallenge throttle cable cuz it was longer?

    Man, muddy AND niedz and now Geoff - still finding battery issues and now it is a weird blinker thingy? sheesh! I have the same battery as Geoffster - the LiFePo4 that TestCyl used to package himself. Then he switched to Ballistic but I think I read that Ballistic is limiting its distributors or something.

    I wrote up a(nother) ridiculously long data dump on LiFePo4 batteries on my main links page - search for battery. Most of this is just notes for myself that I thought I'd share, so not edited very well.

    jtw000 - yep I'm trying to figure out my Wilbers. I went to all that trouble to pick the longest stroke shock within reason, and to get them to actually tell me all the dimensions so I could maximize my wheel travel, but was hoping to not have any more bottoming. and I don't jump it (much) and when I do it doesn't bottom there - it is only on those rain ruts across a fire road where I hit a sharp edge (kinda like a pothole). I think I'm gonna try a stiffer spring first..
  4. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Oddometer:
    2,050
    Yeah, the battery on these things is small. I think I remember, though, it is the same size used in the S1000 crotch rocket.

    I recently replaced my 09 stock battery with a TruGel.

    Although these bikes do not have the Canbus wiring system (thankfully), the electronics on the X series does funny things during low voltage. The LCD display goes haywire and prompts an A65 or AbS fault code. Sometimes, the display will go completely dead although the bike may run.

    I struggled with this issue after installing an HID headlamp conversion ( details of all of that in earlier posts). During the diagnostic run when the key is first turned on, is the critical time. If any low voltage is detected or any spike in the electrical system is sensed (as when an HID ignites), the computer will go beserk and flash the code etc.

    Also, as a minor note, the turn signal flasher is integrated into the computer circuit board. If you monkey with the turn signals (as I did), you will have to work around this internal flasher.

    I re-configured the turn signals to burn at full intensity as running lights and then flash via a relay when turning. The coil of the relay was not enough resistance to make the flasher work properly so I had to wire-in a couple of resistors from Radio Shack. I built all of this as a plug-n-play package that plugs up in the rear wiring harness that goes to the tail.
  5. muddyrabbit

    muddyrabbit Lost Boy

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2007
    Oddometer:
    3,908
    Location:
    Fugawee Land.
    Leafman when did you get your true gel? We were warrantying about 75% of the ones we sold. TR just let us know that they had a bad production run a while back when the Chinese government closed the manufacturer down and they had to jump to a new manufacturer. They had to send a team to iron out quality control issues, and are back on track. But if you got the battery more than a few months ago don't be surprised if it stops holding a charge. If you have any trouble getting it warrantied let me know.
  6. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Oddometer:
    2,050
    I got mine about a month ago.

    I had bought another one 2 years ago and it is still doing fine afaik.

    Thanks
  7. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Oddometer:
    2,050
    Ok, I've received a request to advise regarding the display issues encountered with an HID conversion installation.

    HID bulbs, similar to a common flourescent tube, have both a transormer (or ballast) and a starter (or ignitor). The ignitor and the ballast are combined into one "box" with the standard HID configuration whereas the ignitor is a separate component in the wiring harness with the thin ballast type kits.

    The problem with the X series bikes is that, when the ignitor spikes a surge to ignite the gas charged bulb, the surge apparently does something to the BMW computer system. This occurs primarily if the HID ignites during the initial diagnostic run that occurs when you turn the ignition on.

    The problem is unavoidable since turning on the ignition not only begins the diagnostic run but it also strikes the HID circuit since there is no headlight delay. This may not occur every time. Also, if it does not immediately occur, engaging the starter motor prior to the diagnostic run finishes can also trigger the problem

    When you encounter this problem, you will normally get an A65 or AbS code on your digital display accompanied by a total loss of stored data like your trip odometer mileage and your clock time setting. The master odometer reading remains intact.

    The solution is to make provisions for the HID to NOT strike until after the diagnostic process has completed. You have at least two options for this.

    Create a timer circuit to delay the engergizing of the HID lamp circuit for enough time to allow the diagnostic to complete or create a mechanical means of delaying the energizing of this circuit until the engine is running.

    If you choose the second of these options, be sure not to start the motor and concurrently energize the HID until the diagnostic has completed.

    If you wanna get sophisticated, you can combine both a timed circuit and a mechanical delay to insure that the HID stays off at a minimum for the necessary time for the diagnostic to run but, on top of that, will not energize until the engine starts. Got that ? lol

    Ok, the basics of how to do it.

    First off, I recommend an accessory fuse holder for all such add-ons. Centech, Fuzeblock and others are available and each has their own advantages etc.

    Tie your HID circuit into this accessory panel and simply put another timed relay between the accessory panel and the HID components.

    When you turn on the key, power goes to the accessory panel (via its own added relay either on the accessory board as with the Fuzeblock or as a separate component with other products). From the panel it will feed the time delay circuit going to the HID that you time to last at least as long as the diagnostic run of the bike. This way, the HID wont come on until the diagnostic is finished.

    This works most of the time but, occasionally, if the HID strikes before you have started the engine, you may draw the fault code upon engaging the starter even if the diagnostic run has finished.

    The other option is to switch the HID circuit or the entire accessory panel to not energize until the motor is running. This works okay (assuming you dont start the motor until after the diagnostic is complete).

    Two good options. Trigger the relay to the HID or to the accessory panel itself from a vacuum operated switch that will energize only when the motor cranks and generates vacuum. If you have disconnected your charcoal canister, just use the vacuum line that went to that. Get an easily available VOES (vacuum operated electrical switch) used by Harley Davidson in the 80's and 90's. Ebay or websearch VOES switch and youll find hundreds.

    Dont worry about which VOES you get. The only difference in the switches is the vacuum engagement pressure setting and you can change that. Hook up the switch and wire it to engage your HID or accessory panel when the motor starts running. Dig out the silicone plug on the VOES and turn the adjusting screw with a small screwdriver to delay the engagement as much as possible so the VOES is sure the motor is running before engaging. Replace the silicone plug.

    There ya go. Just wait til the diagnostic is complete before hitting the starter and 98 percent of the time you will not have a fault code.

    Oh, by the way, instead of using a VOES, you should also be able to do the same thing by using the oil pressure sensor as the activator.

    Now, for the advanced class. Wire up a time delay circuit AND a VOES activation circuit in series. When you turn the key on the timer starts and makes sure nothing goes to the HID until the timer and diagnostic finishes. On top of that, nothing goes through the timer circuit, even if it is activated, until the motor starts.

    This way, you can turn on the key. If you sit until the timer finsihes its run along with the disgnostic run, the HID will remain off until the engine is running. If you get carried away and hit the starter button before the timer and diagnostic has finished, the HID will remain off until the timer completes even though the engine may be running! This is damn near fool proof.

    You can think of other variants of this set up. You could even set the starter motor on a circuit to allow the diagnostic to finish before starting.

    This has worked very well for me. Fiddle with it a while.

    Sorry, I havent posted a schematic. Think about what Ive written and you will figure it out.
  8. Geoffster

    Geoffster Fool - Born This Way

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,379
    Location:
    My Blue Heaven
  9. Rev Kiecker

    Rev Kiecker Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2002
    Oddometer:
    729
    Location:
    Tulsa, OK
    Great write up Leafman60. Very thorough! I'll go back and re-read it a couple times. Much of the above I understand and/or already have implemented into my setup. I'll have to have my bike in front of me and compare to see where my issue lies.

    But thank you once again.
  10. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Oddometer:
    2,050
    The main thing you wanna do, Kiecker, is keep the HID from coming on while the computer is in diagnostic mode.

    The voltage spike screws it up.

    After the diagnostic completes, 90 percent of the time you wont have a problem igniting the HID unless your battery is not strong.

    Really, the best time to ignite the HID and absorb the spike is when the bike is running and charging the electrical system.
  11. imeny

    imeny Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Oddometer:
    129
    Location:
    Israel
    Hi guys,
    I want to upgrade my rear shock to Conti air shock.
    I saw someone selling a BMW HP air shock, but I don't know if it will fit to my Xco , I looked at micro fiche and it's different part no. from the XCh air shock .

    So , what are you think about it ??

    Thanks

    Meny
  12. DRONE

    DRONE Dog Chauffeur

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,190
    Location:
    Chambers Bay, WA
    The HP shock is about 5 cm longer than the XC air shock. Otherwise, I think it fits OK. Some guys have seen some tire rubbing with the XC shock so that would be something to keep your eye on. The valve where you add or bleed air is in a different place on the HP shock. I don't know if that would make adjusting the air pressure easier, harder, impossible, or what.
  13. imeny

    imeny Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Oddometer:
    129
    Location:
    Israel
    Thanks Drone!
    Did you find a new bike already ?
  14. mbfj40

    mbfj40 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Oddometer:
    173
    Location:
    Modesto, Ca.
    Regarding the HID delay wiring and such:
    The vacuum operated switch may not be the best choice for the lighting system. Although it would provide a delay as desired, it could/would also be possible for you to lose your headlight in a "low" vacuum condition like low gear wide open throttle or a stalled engine condition. You wouldn't want even a slight possibility of that happening during rush hour in a dark intersection. And for the electronic time delay versions, keep the delay down to just a few seconds, If your light goes out for whatever reason you don't want to be going 60 mph on some dark windy back road and have to wait for 4, 6, or 10 seconds for your light to come back on.
    My first try was a 4 second on-delay relay. But that left me open for 4 seconds of darkness if I had a "flame out" for any reason. My latest solution was to use a standard relay that I wired with an electric "latching" circuit. I'll look around for my wiring notes and post-em for you-all. Basically, you have two "on" switches that must be on for the bike to run, the key needs to be "on" and the kill switch needs to be "on". My HID relay is triggered via the kill switch circuit and powered by the key, using the Key's wires that don't "power off" during engine cranking. The "key" power is just for relay triggering, not HID powering, that's wired directly from the battery. I start with the kill switch in the "kill" position and turn on the key. The display then will do it's diagnostic sweep. Then, when I toggle the kill switch to "run", the relay is energized and the light will fire. And at the same time, I have the relay wired to "latch" it's self in the "on" position as long as the key is not turned off. It stays "latched-on" even if the kill switch is pressed or if the engine dies. and then press the starter to start the engine. The light will not go out unless the key is turned off. If you forget (ooopsy) to have the kill switch pressed when you turn on the key then the lamp will fire with out delay and you may "code out" your display as before, so you have to get in the habit of "kill switch off" when turning the key on for this to work. (I'm not untrainable :-) The Light will be on during engine cranking and without the direct wiring of the relays "switched" power coming directly from the battery your lights could be "starved" for power during engine start. I added a Capacitor in line here to help eliminate that possibility, so far zero flame outs on engine start. The reason I went this way vs. my On-Delay setup was that one time my HID "flamed out" on me at speed in the dark and I had to reach across and "key-off, key-on", then wait 4 more seconds before it "re-lit" That was one time too many for me. Now once the headlight is on, it stays on regardless of the kill switch, engine running, stalling etc until you turn off the key. Much more better. This "current" setup is working well but I still would have to cycle the key to "re-fire" the light if it dropped out for any reason, so I'm thinking of adding a "master" reset button on the handle bars that will restrike the lights with just a touch. (good for any HID set up on a bike) I'm just waiting to get on over to CycleGear and pick up a motocross style kill switch and wire it in as my master reset.
    Any of that make sense to my fellow G650X riders....
    mike
  15. DRONE

    DRONE Dog Chauffeur

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,190
    Location:
    Chambers Bay, WA
    I think for this year I'm going to concentrate on the two bikes I got in the garage.

    I wanted to weigh in on the HID thing. I got no argument with Leafman's post. But . . . the guys in GSPOT discovered quite a while ago that physical proximity of the ignitors to the RID makes a huge difference. Locate the ignitors far away from the RID and the RID problems go away.

    Some of you guys might remember that I installed HID's on my XCountry back in 2009. I had no problems with the bike's electronics at all. But, and here's the big but, my old style non-digital ballasts (ignitors consolidated in the ballasts) were located below and behind the headlight. see pic--

    [​IMG]

    Also, my HID's were controlled by an on/off switch on the left grip. Which means that sometimes they were off when I fired up the bike, but sometimes they were on.

    My point being that if you put your ballasts and ignitors down low, or under the seat, or in the battery box (next to your LiFePo battery) I'll bet you have no problem.
  16. mikecbrxx

    mikecbrxx Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Oddometer:
    269
    Location:
    English expat in The Hague
    Another way is to fit one of these in place of the left multi switch. Slows for the front headlight to be turned off..... Or not turned on till after engine start. It's off a KTM.

    [​IMG]

    Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2
  17. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Oddometer:
    2,050

    Lol, I agree. You wire the relay to the HID to be latching so that once the VOES triggers it, the relay stays shut until you kill the ignition key even if vacuum drops.
  18. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Oddometer:
    2,050

    I tried that too. Currently, my ignitor is down close to the airbox and I can still draw fault codes without making the precautions mentioned.

    If you cut and splice extra wire to distance to ignitor too much, you can have problems with it striking the bulb on. In other words, these cant be too far away in order to work properly (same with sodium street lamps-smile).

    Anyway, whatever works for you guys is great. I'm just giving you my "fix" after a great amount of anguish.

    Oh, by the way, one issue to note - I use the H-4 HID bulb with the electromagnetic solenoid to shuttle the bulb element in and out to effect hi/lo beams.

    On some bulbs, the coil in the solenoid can draw a helluva lot of current. Do a test with your volt meter. The bulbs stays on and does not change anything. When you hit hi beam, the solenoid pulls in. Do that and see if you have a huge voltage drop. If you do, the coil in the bulb shuttle solenoid is not working right.
  19. Geoffster

    Geoffster Fool - Born This Way

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,379
    Location:
    My Blue Heaven
    I'm so old fashioned -- and electrical gremlins are so elusive -- I'll keep my stock headlamp and continue to hit foreign objects after dark. :eek1

    (Or park the bike for the night and work on bad habits!)
  20. leafman60

    leafman60 Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Oddometer:
    2,050
    There's a lot to be said for that !

    Or, instead of doing a headlamp conversion, just fit some auxiliaries.

    In addition to my HID headlamp, I fitted a pair of led auxiliaries of the BMW Take Down type. They give much better down-road illumination than I expected.

    I have thought about going back to the stock halogen but I like the idea of using 35 watts instead of 55/60.