So, what can we do better next year -- Dakar Coverage?

Discussion in 'Racing' started by PackMule, Jan 15, 2012.

  1. hilslamer

    hilslamer 2XRedheadedstepchild

    Jan 2, 2007
    Chch, EnZed
    Agree wholeheartedly! Athough, the ASO media folks might have a thing or ten to say about such antics...

    Perhaps Jonah could come out of retirement for something like this, eh? Otherwise, it's looking for me personally like for the next two Dakars, I could be able to commit to one of the duties of this crew if even half of my expenses were covered. And I know how to live out of a Jetboil and sleepingbag(although, the roving cameraman/interviewer appeals).

    Another thought would be some sort of live feed, from a camera simply mounted pointing at the RiffRaff camp somehow. Simple to set up, addicting to watch, and as long as sponsor's stickers were visible, paid for easily.
  2. snatchy

    snatchy Adventurer

    Aug 20, 2007
    Nth East OZ
    Thanks to all those that contributed. It was great to be able to stay informed.

    Here are some suggestions;
    - the official Dakar 2012 Media Thread - Pics and Videos Only thread had a few people commenting and discussing. Deleting non info posts would be nice to keep it on topic

    - i was very suprised by the agressive anti French or ASO (or anti whatever) of some posters. For me It detracted a bit from the good info being posted, but that is what you get in open forums... no suggestions on how to deal with it.

    - Agree with Country Doc that a topic somewhere between a "cliff notes" thread and the main F5 thread would be usefull to reduce the volume between usefull posts. A wild suggestion would be a elitist thread open only to those who are known to have a clue or are on site in the thick of the action. How you work out who to include would be difficult. Its a suggestion to provoke some discussion.

    Thanks again to those that took the time to post info during the event
  3. ian408

    ian408 Administrator Administrator

    Apr 12, 2003
    Santa Clara, CA
    One of those giant tundra buggies. Half seating, half sleeping accommodation. Ought to be enough room for all the accoutrements of civilized camping and a rally bike or two :lol3

    On a serious note, I like your idea of "crew". Just not sure how to guarantee it would work out?
  4. kaia

    kaia team F5 ⌘R

    Aug 8, 2008
    silicon valley, ca
    i think this year that things went beautifully. we had a great staff of people, and awesome discussion, and even a few events to wildly speculate about... which is part of what the F5 crew does.

    next year, i think that... having someone in Deadly99's position (even sponsored by the F5 crew @ adv; his trip was self sponsored), but have the person who goes be more of the reporter-type, with the means (sat phone / internet) to do so. i'm not sure if it's kosher (with ASO) but have them doing person-to-person interviews / chats with competitors, encode & upload to RallyRAIDio. allow competitors to use said person as a "post this info for me" and get it out to the proper channels. we could set up automated stuff for them to post to the F5irehose without having to load it into a browser (ie: email-to-post or something similar).

    i'd like to see a way to get the eurosport broadcasts (live & highlights), either by encoding / re-publishing, or possibly a deal with eurosport or something... ie: we already have a "relationship" with carlton, let's see if we can take that relationship a step further... and get legit broadcasts from eurosport (or time-delayed and we can host them ourselves) (i know... pipe dream, but we can dream). if i could have my way, i'd love to be able to get an authorization to archive & re-broadcast of both eurosport broadcasts daily, and host them on SmugMug... but i don't think that'd be possible without rights / permission, and my gut tells me that IF it's possible, it's going to be expensive.

    it's not just about the US, it's about the ADV community, and outside of europe, the coverage for dakar is crap. we don't want the toned down coverage, the "i'm going to read off a script with nothing unique to say" coverage (which we got from ABCSports), we want the whole shebang.

    i think Mischa's site(s) were invaluable... it'd be nice to get carbon-copies of said code on multiple servers for failover, and load balancing. (ie:,,

    i think that the technical know-how is here within the F5 crew... we just need to leverage it.
  5. vander

    vander full-time dreamer

    Nov 25, 2007

    True. This years coverage lacked of something. As you say, heli shots look all the same.

    I also felt a big lack of dune images this year. We are lucky the race was so tight, otherwise we would have seen nearly two weeks of procession in the same type of mountain roads, not exactly what I have in mind when thinking Dakar.
  6. Hay Ewe

    Hay Ewe Just a Wannabe

    Jul 17, 2005
    FNQ - AUS
    this was my first time on the F5 fire hose, it was awesome, took a fair few hours of my time but worth it.
    I started out following the cliff notes.

    I don't think you can put anything specifically together to improve it, for me it was all there.

    I do like the idea of a specific forum for other rallies, I would like to know more about the dubai, Rallye des Phaeros, Optic tunisia etc, but keep them the same, a thread for a few months before, the actually rally and thats it. The dakar, Silk route and the FIA / FIM rallies. shouldn't be come polluted with general other conversation.

    Keep the cars and bikes together, to have two threads would be too hard, what about when a car hits a bike etc, would that be in the car thread or the bike thread?

    thanks for the opportunity

    Hay Ewe
  7. CBVRacing

    CBVRacing CBVRacing

    Mar 1, 2007
    Create your own F5 Community Website with the ADV forum capabilities at its core and side menus for inmates interviews, embedded video coverage etc to cover the people that are doing it tough but whose stories are much more powerful than watching the same two motorbikes and the same 3 cars over two weeks (e.g. that rider and motorbike photo who is totally under water is a story that needs to be told).

    Live stories from people on the ground to report on those inmates.

    Perhaps there is enough interest for some advertisers to pay for the space and along with some donations pay for the entry fees / transport of TSC or Doyle or yourself to be on the ground. I was going to say BlueBull as well but my little finger tells me he will be racing :wink:

    If you find a way to transmit live, i am happy to feed videos from within the cockpit of my single seater buggy in 2013 if a deal can be sorted with ASO so you can watch it as it happens, this with BlueBull google genius capabilities is as close as one can get!
  8. Flood

    Flood F5lood.

    Oct 18, 2005
    I love some ideas here, thanks all! :thumb

    We were a bit late organizing the coverage this year, so there's still a lot of room for improvement. With 2,3 more people helping out with the cliff notes thread, we can try to tell a story there. This year, I had only time to click through 30 pages of the big thread, and copy/paste stuff that looked like good intel - I couldn't even read a lot of it. I'd love to hear from people who only read the cliff notes thread: did it make any sense?
    With a bit more manpower, we could post daily briefings and standings and index them in the first post.

    That would be a dream. There are a lot of dunes to cross in order to get there, though. Fielding an official press car costs €18,000 including 4 journos. And you need a 4x4 with rollcage and everything.
    Of course one could try to share the car with 2,3 other outlets.

    Doing it like Ted would be another way, just tagging along with a team. Taking a free seat in a team car isn't much cheaper, of course. But it doesn't get you into the press tent. If you carry a press accreditation, you are not allowed to help a competitor in any way, not even wash his bike. Maybe a "new media" outlet could get extra rulings from the ASO though. :dunno

    Getting legit ES coverage on the web is a pipe dream, I'm afraid, for licensing reasons. ES have a web player themselves, limited to paying customers, IP blocked to Europe. NBC pays licensing fees to broadcast in the US, this would be useless if we were allowed to stream the stuff ourselves. Of course the pictures are all the same and get released by the ASO on Youtube. If we are unhappy with NBC's or ES's voice over, someone could take those and do an ADV/F5 voice over with the info we have collected during the day.

    Good idea :thumb

    Love it!
  9. mountainboy1974

    mountainboy1974 Adventurer

    Dec 18, 2006
    :freaky -personally, that made all the diff from past years coverage, together with the radio interviews.

    cant thank JMLATVANAFAN and other contributers enough.

    My first exposure to Eurosport and I loved the behind the scene's stories -more of those would be oober great!!
  10. klb555

    klb555 Lurker

    Dec 15, 2010
    Coastal SC/Western NC
    Lurker alert......:D

    As a first time follower of the Firehose and the coverage on ADV....I have no constructive or for that matter intelligent suggestions for improvement.

    I would like to say THANK YOU to all who provided the information. It was a blast. Sadly for most of the second week I had limited time so I never caught up again on the Firehose, even scrolling past the glue manufacturing there was no way to keep up. That in turn made the Cliff Notes a lifeline. I plan to continue reading the main thread through till the end because after the fact is worth it...that thread is awesome.

    OK so I also got caught up in the Nedro frenzy and support and used most of the limited time I had to follow Ned, Ted and Tim's excellent adventure......:clap

    Sorry for the spam but I wanted to be sure and get a thanks in here somewhere for you folks to read.

  11. Mad Cow

    Mad Cow Dakar Addict!

    Jan 7, 2011
    England's green and pleasant land

    Well if you guys insist..........

    Waddya think?

    Attached Files:

  12. Brodovitch

    Brodovitch Team ⌘R

    Nov 15, 2010
    Athens, Greece
    you just gave me a naughty idea... :lol3


    wanna pair up? we can split the shipping,...
  13. Lav1200

    Lav1200 Pig Pen

    Dec 3, 2004
    Calgary, Canada
    That's the only improvement I can suggest... the thread became a bit of a free-for-all. Let's try to keep it to just pics and videos next year.

    Great job to all on making this the best Dakar yet for coverage!
  14. MsLizVt

    MsLizVt pfft ...

    Jun 2, 2007
    Killington, Vermont


    We're probably all in agreement that the RallyRadio phone in calls were a huge part of each of our great ADV Dakar F5 experience. Having more people calling in, being their own interviewer and interviewee, would be awesome.

    There's one more step, or should I say another additional option, Ustream. Ustream is a smart phone application that's either Free (there's a Professional versiontoo). The Free version downloads to someones smart phone, allowing the individual to send a live stream video up to their account on There may be a way to have a central ADV Ustream account that everyone could upload to.

    Anyone can watch the video while it's live, at the end, the Ustream-er can hit Save/Archive. The video becomes available to watch at anytime, like a YouTube video. There is no limit to how long the video can be, like YouTube videos do. Actually, I believe at six hours of straight videoing it's suggested to stop, save, and restart.

    We can also do a search on Ustream "Dakar" for other peoples live and archived videos.

    Oh, and this is good too, the Ustream-er can do the video in the dunes, not live upstreaming, save it on their smart phone, then upload it later when they might have better cell coverage, such as in the bivouac.

    My suggestion is in addition to having someone from ADV who's our dedicated reporter in the field, enlist everyone we can think of to Ustream. Each team has sponsorship of some sort. It would make sense that they would like to show their sponsors what's going on with their team. Ustreaming is so easy and costs nothing for special cameras or audio equipment.

    The options are unlimited as to who can be Ustreaming. The Ted type of guy could be videoing while hanging out in the bivouac waiting for the riders, or live updating the KTM team swapping a motor. The rider could do their own daily interview, or if they're stranded on course for the night they could live stream the antics of other cars and trucks stuck with them. Spectators can live stream their own Mud-Gate or River-Gate as it happens.

    The thing is, no matter what someone live streams, it can be saved in perpetuity for use in the future to show their friends, potential sponsors, or maybe it'll go viral.

    I suggest you download the Free app, set up a Free account, and try it yourselves. It's not the same process as going a Go-Pro, videoing, downloading to the computer, then uploading to YouTube. Instead it's basically one step, click video on live, click save at the end.

    Does this sound like an idea that might work?


    Here's an example, and the link to Ustream.

    <iframe src="" style="border: 0px none transparent;" scrolling="no" width="480" frameborder="0" height="386"> </iframe>
  15. Carlos M

    Carlos M

    Jun 17, 2002
    Portugal, Europe
    Agree with CBV, a dedicated website merging Mischa's tables, ADV F5 Thread, links to media coverage, competitors info, previous editions statistics, regulations, tweet feeds, you now, all the windows that we have to open every day, and plus. That would be great. Ask an expert section, get previous competitors to answer questions. download kml to fly the stage (bluebull). Predicetd times to next WP and to ASS, though this is more Mischas's department. The same with graphical representation of riders on stages.

    Regarding the F5 thread:
    If possible, would implement stricter anti-chauvinism policy on the F5 thread. Sometimes it engages in "GO USA" and "france never won a war" mode and it becomes boring and hard to read.

    Rallyradio is great, wonder if the F5 core (Doyle, Flood, PackMule and TroySafariCarpente) could just setup a conference call everyday and broadcast that as a radio show.

    Hell, if you could get a decent text-to-speach thing that would read every entry on the Firehose, I could listen to it and acctually try to work instead of the F5-scroll down-F5-scroll down-F5-next page-scrolldown-F5 thing.

    Aaaand...If we can´t make it bettter, it's OK as it is :D.
  16. Boondoggle

    Boondoggle no good deed

    Feb 9, 2009
    Half a bubble off level
    Check me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like he'll remember next year :lol3

    Other than pruning the media thread a little more, I wouldn't change a thing. Sometimes "better" is the enemy of "great".

    The magic of following the firehose thread is that it just happens. I'm afraid that if you try to put an artificial framework around that, you lose what makes it great (someone called it "organic"- I think that's a great adjective for it). One of the problems with rules is that once you start making them, it's easy to make too many, and eventually you end up making some bad ones.

    Yes, as it is you get noise, and french-bashing, and off-topic silliness, but that's probably less than a percent of the total. I think that's just the price you pay for 1,000 daily posts that, in the aggregate, are absolute genius.
  17. doyle

    doyle RallyRaidReview-ing

    Jan 14, 2004
    Off Piste
    I think it went great this year. As usual, the RallyRAIDio call ins were excellent. Although for some unknown reason, I never use it, Mischa's work on is absolutely priceless. To a certain extent, I think the yearly thread has reached terminal velocity although one think I noticed this year was a lot more valuable contributions by a lot more people and I send out a big thanks for everyone that decided to dive in head first.

    My how we've grown

    Year - Posts - Views
    2012 - 14,173 - 725,667
    2011 - 12,452 - 758,577
    2010 - 7,138 - 499,864
    2009 - 3,362 - 285,430
    2008 - 714 - 68,821
    2007 - 1,327 - 74,175
    2006 - 420 - 30,113

    It's great to see more people jump in as it tends to spread the load a bit. The anti-Cyril, anti-Peterhansel repeats got a little old, but it also shows a passion for what's going on and I can appreciate that. Flood, I'm certainly willing to help out with the Cliff's Notes next year!

    I am completely convinced that this thread (and the forum) is the single most comprehensive, English language source for Dakar news and information. That being said, I am not so sure an embedded reporter would be as valuable as it may seem. Scotty Breauxman (sp?) expressed a lot of frustration at the expense for just the credentials ($6K), then the costs to use ASO bandwidth, and then the controls they place over the content. Embedded team mates like Deadly99 add invaluable updates but I am not sure how practical it is for someone form one team to roam around interviewing others.

    Live, English language (Maray) type coverage would be fun and exhausting for the participants that are working (or pretending to) at the same time.

    All in all, it was a great year.
  18. Mad Cow

    Mad Cow Dakar Addict!

    Jan 7, 2011
    England's green and pleasant land

    "Enter" as a Press Vehicle and all you need to do is get to Le Havre (Sure it's a little bit easier for me 2 hour drive + 4 hour Ferry) ASO then do the shipping :D

    But you will need to drop the Defender off in November :eek1
  19. barrier

    barrier Says who?

    Oct 27, 2008
    North Wales UK
    If Toby entes again we just need an 'ADV web cam' on his head and some long life batteries! (48hrs plus)
    That should just about do it!:lol3
  20. DC950

    DC950 Microadventurer

    Mar 1, 2004
    Las Cruces, NM
    CBV said it all. I don't think it could get better than that.

    But realistically, I think we're forgetting that we have this incredible free site right here. A dedicated sight isn't going to be free. Nor do I think anyone is going to dedicate the time to a dedicated site so that it would work commercially. It would be a huge amount of work and it has to successfully compete with a free site. I suggest we work with what Baldy let's us have.

    So what to change?

    1. Rally Raidio sticky with as many call in interviews as Nate can handle.

    2. Cross posting of all pics between the Photo and the F5 thread. There are many good ones that only show up in one thread. I wish there was an easy way to do this.

    That's enough for me.

    Thanks guys, it's been fun.