So, what can we do better next year -- Dakar Coverage?

Discussion in 'Racing' started by PackMule, Jan 15, 2012.

  1. Drif10

    Drif10 Accredited Jackass

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    Just as soon as you can define that line in the sand, let us know. Is it like the porn definition: I know it when I see it? Your definition will differ from mine, this is human. Whose opinion is 'righter'? It's a tough one, when you choose to censor.

    I don't see where there was a problem worthy of much discussion, or more so, to warrant another set of rules. Too much of that goes on already, imo. We all have different ideas about things, to make them conform to someone's definition ain't exactly what this place was about. But perhaps, it is keeping with the current norms as demonstrated in Adv now.


    The content is here, and continues to amaze and improve. Let's focus on that, and not on censoring our neighbors thoughts and words.
    #61
  2. hardwaregrrl

    hardwaregrrl ignore list

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    Hey all, hey Nate. I'm sorry if this is obvious but I'm about to get paid and want to donate to Rally radio but can't figure out a PP addy or where to send a check.
    #62
  3. Smithy

    Smithy Avoiding the Skid-Demon

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    Nate threw down a warning at one point, and maybe a dozen posts got pruned. It was enough, and reserved for the most egregious. I guess I'm just taking a long time to say, "it was about right, don't be afraid to prune if it comes down to it."

    Glad I'm not in charge of this herd of cats.
    #63
  4. Country Doc

    Country Doc Wanderer

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    Excellent thoughts Drif and Smithy.

    To me, it seems obvious (only my opinion). Discourse and dialogue about possible preferential treatment of French riders by a French organization, entertaining conspiracy theories, interposing that with real evidence from the public record, etc., is all fair game.

    Internet cowboy posts trashing a particular culture/race/country/etc., serve no purpose and are of significantly negative value.

    I don't need, or care, to hear what some dude thinks about French people. I AM, on the other hand, VERY interested to hear what any dude thinks about how the organization might be unfair, or where corruption might be creeping in, but this is about the ORGANIZATION, not the race/culture/language of the people that run it.

    There is horrifying corruption and abuse in all countries, languages, and classes. It serves no purpose to specifically discriminate based on a single situation, racing or otherwise.

    Let's focus on the content, as Drif said, and turn the focus away from xenophobic bullshit as much as possible. I don't think it's asking to much to expect this community to rise above that level.

    dc
    #64
  5. Iron Horse

    Iron Horse I Make Shit Up

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    I agree.

    Even though I was an offender. :shog

    A slap to the back of the head and got things back on track.
    #65
  6. PackMule

    PackMule love what you do Super Moderator

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    Hi, Everyone. I've spent most of the day today trying to claw my way back to baseline on all the things that have languished in the "real world" over the fortnight. :zilla

    Just reading up quickly here, fantastic discussion. Please keep it coming. :clap


    :beer
    Nate
    #66
  7. Mad Cow

    Mad Cow Dakar Addict!

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    As a n00b when the Rally started.... (but boy do I feel like a veteran now :D ) the Dakar scoring 101 thread was great but a suggestion for next year, this should have a section on the difference between....

    ASO - The Organisation
    FIM (and FIA) - The World Governing Bodies
    Eurosport - The TV Broadcaster

    At times the three were completely confused by some inmates, especially when it came to things like Robby's disqualification, it seemed that most people were convinced this had been done by ASO when it was of course the FIA Jury.

    Equally the discussion on "Mudgate" although ASO were obviously instrumental in the "solution" to the timing issue, the final decision rest with the FIM Jury (does anyone know if their is a combined FIM/FIA Jury or two separate ones?)

    And then we had numerous comments on the TV coverage that invariably started "why don't ASO cover this........" No it's Eurosport that decide where the cameras are and what ends up on the cutting room floor. Again ASO will have a level of influence but no organiser has total control of the media (even if ASO try very hard to do so). And yes Eurosport are a French based broadcaster but I will make no further comment on that.

    OK I'm sure this will still go on and of course not everyone will read it but hopefully we can try and sort out the confusion
    #67
  8. JayBo1

    JayBo1 Long timer

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    That speaks volumes. Good on ya Iron Horse:clap
    #68
  9. Brodovitch

    Brodovitch Team ⌘R

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    Good points, worthy of inclusion in the Cliff Notes, just not sure about the last one...

    It's always been my understanding that the ASO crews are the only ones to actually film everything (using their own helicopters & ground crews), and then that footage gets released to TVE / NBC / Eurosport / France24 etc for editing & narration (Carlton etc)... the ASO get the first edit of course... :wink:

    The only thing a broadcasting partner (TVE, ES, F24) can add is live on the ground reporting in the bivvy (Adelaide and the German guy from last year on Eurosport for example), but not much footage of the actual race, if any
    #69
  10. Flood

    Flood F5lood.

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    :nod
    Eurosport nowadays only has Adelaide on the ground, doing a couple of finisher interviews. This is paid for by VW and we have to watch the "extra" footage of her fooling around in the desert, showing off Ze Amarok kaar. Until last year, VW paid a lot more, resulting in more bivouac footage and more Ze Amarok kaar, ze Touareg kaar, Ze Kris Nissen footage.

    The show is pre-produced by the ASO media crew, including basic voice-over and interview translation and is then sent out to ES, SBS, NBC etc., where the local talents then do their own voice over.


    Concerning the penalties and disqualifications, I'm not 100% sure, but as the Dakar is NOT a FIM/FIA rally, but is running under ASO rules + FIA/FIM rules, the first level of jurisdiction is in fact a commission of ASO sporting/tech officials, with the courts of appeal being the french motorsports association and then the FIM.
    #70
  11. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    Oui :nod on both counts
    #71
  12. JayBo1

    JayBo1 Long timer

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    I'll be keen to do regular Rally Radio updates next year. Those were absolutely magic from Ned:clap and really caught the imagination of the ADVRider supporters. I've done them before from the Australasian Safari bivouac with SafariBerg. Of course Ned has set a very tough act to follow in many more ways than one, but I'd do my best - always in more ways than one! (This does of course rely on the ASO accepting my entry when the time comes)
    Ciao
    JayBo
    #72
  13. FinnDuro

    FinnDuro Winter wonderlanding

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    Bit of a longshot conspiracy idea here maybe, and let's not tell anyone ok, but.. maybe some of you young handsome & influential rally-aficionados, preferably with some romantic skills in french, should let your charming skills loose for subtle year-long persuasive methods of influencing the beforementioned Adelaide Saint Amore Cul Desac Guyuy sur Malles Madame, with the purpose of getting a little more privateer moto rider footage here and there for Dakar 2013. :ear

    Anyone who recognises himself in that, go for it (her)! :evil
    #73
  14. Mad Cow

    Mad Cow Dakar Addict!

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    Thanks for the clarification.

    I was under the impression, gained some years ago from my experience as a UCI Commissaire in cyling that the "ASO Film team" were in fact from Eurosport under contract and therefore different to Eurosport the broadcaster (Adelaide etc).


    Having done some searching I realise this not the case and indeed the ASO website says



    Obviously on most major sport events it will be the case that they "buy in" the TV production although I suppose being a such a huge, regular annual event it makes sense for ASO to have an in house capability, especially as they also have the Tour de France, Paris-Roubaix, Liège-Bastogne-Liège, Flèche Wallonne and Paris-Tours, Paris-Nice, Critérium du Dauphiné, Vuelta a España, etc etc


    My own expeience includes working on the 2002 Commonwealth Games in Manchester, the Official Games broadcaster was the BBC but was not the same as the BBC covereing the event for UK consumption. The arguments between the two sides of the same company over what should be covered was amusing at times, with BBC World concentrating on the top athletes only but BBC UK wanting more coverage of UK athletes in all positions.

    Again as a cycling official, i have a "professional" interest in the rules aspect and my observations were based in part on the fact that in the TV coverage of Robbygate the chairman of the Jury was interviewed and captioned as being from the FIA (and I noted Andorran). That was odd as in cycling we are never identified by our nationality, I still recall from my initial training being told "a Commissaire has no nationality during an event".
    #74
  15. PackMule

    PackMule love what you do Super Moderator

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    :rofl

    I'm hoping to chat with Ben Constanduros in the next week or so. I think understanding how what we see is produced and delivered is fascinating. And may give some insight as to what is/is not possible through the traditional channels.
    #75
  16. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    a PM PM'd 2 PM
    #76
  17. PackMule

    PackMule love what you do Super Moderator

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    Looking forward to it, Jaybo!

    Here's a call from the Safari: http://traffic.libsyn.com/rallyraidio/08OzSaf09.mp3

    Ned really laid some fantastic groundwork this year. I hope we can keep it going! :clap
    #77
  18. dentvet

    dentvet Long timer

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    We already have a man on the ground in Bluebull. Lets get him to ride for two weeks straight. He weaseled into some great spots, sneaking past controls into the bivvy etc. With a little more planning and support, he could do quite a bit of spying for us. i think he's polylingual, too.:freaky
    #78
  19. thegraydog

    thegraydog 2 wheels X 6 ways

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    I didn't see much video this year -- likely because of the small hose at this end.
    But dang, could we have THREE seconds of any given scene, to look at the landscape or follow the bike? The compilers drink too much RedBull....
    #79
  20. VxZeroKnots

    VxZeroKnots Long timer

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    PackMule et. all I'm not sure what the communication constraints are but is internet always available in the bivvy? how possible would it be to utilize existing services like Skype for the call-ins to reduce cost, or perhaps simply record the call-ins to .mp3's then zip them all up and FTP them stateside where they can then be put into your boradcast and reserve sat calls for the priceless interviews to reduce expenses?

    Also I know there was some concern about the broadcasts being able to be viewed on tablet devices and web-TV's which from what I understand for the most part was not a problem. If some sort of HTML5 container with flash fallback needs to be developed so as to reach the broadest audience then as a web-developer myself I'd be willing to donate my services to facilitate your needs as best I'm able.

    I'm sure there are others on here with the know how as well who feel the same about this indispensable service you provide and we should all pool our resources to help those who have provided what is probably the most comprehensive coverage of the Dakar available.

    Even if you just want to run some ideas by someone who deals with spreading content on the net day in and day out please do not hesitate to PM me and we can start a dialogue for next year's needs.
    #80