Soccer Thread V1: Klinsmann for Gold?

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Bshelton, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. RhinoVonHawkrider

    RhinoVonHawkrider Long timer

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    Ur Welcome


    Wow - Wigan - BIG upset
  2. JNRobert

    JNRobert Breaking Wind

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    Well, that's Mancini's final nail. Now wouldn't it be great if Mourinho came in at City and he wins everything next year :evil

    Benitez has done enough to remain at Chelsea (and Fat Frankie has the all time scoring record for the club today so that's him gone too :D). I like Chelsea (I've been to Stamford Bridge a few times) but damn, are they weirdly ruthless.
  3. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    Fantastic result for Wigan. I really like Martinez, so I'm very pleased for him. This win might secure him the job at Everton even if Wigan go down. And it looks almost certain that they will be relegated, unfortunately.

    They play a lovely style of football and it's nice to see them rewarded with a piece of history. This is one of the all-time upsets in a FA Cup final that hasn't seen one since the 1994.

    Benitez was a mistake hire and he'll never have the permanent job at Stamford Bridge. The fans have hated him since the mid-2000's when he ran his big mouth about Chelsea and Chelsea fans. Fuck him.

    It was a stupid hire and his record is being gilded for doing the bare minimum. There was no suggestion that Chelsea were in crisis when Roberto di Matteo was fired. And I question the tactical nous of a man who takes off Hazard and brings on Yossi Benayoun -- twice! -- when the match is in the balance. His substitutions are generally awful and he hasn't really cured Chelsea's defensive issues.

    Mourinho isn't my first choice as the next Chelsea manager. But with the United and Bayern jobs taken, maybe this time he'll actually settle down at a club and cut down on the theatrics. Unfortunately, I fully expect another power struggle as he tries to wrest player acquisitions away from Michael Emenalo.

    Frank Lampard is a Chelsea legend. The highest scorer in the team's history. Up until two years ago I had the guy on a pedestal. Character, class and ability. Then he helped stab AVB in the back. Since then, I've had mixed feelings about Frank. With his career threatened, he showed an unpleasant side to his personality. It's said that Roman Abramovich is reluctant to sign him -- or Terry -- to new contracts because of how they treated AVB. I understand and sympathize with Roman. I suspect that Lampard's fate is in Mourinho's hands. If Jose wants him, he'll get a deal. Otherwise, he'll move on.
  4. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    ps Tactics were on display at Wembley today. I guess they stole the German clubs' thunder! :evil
  5. JNRobert

    JNRobert Breaking Wind

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    So why did the mad Russian fire AVB and not Terry and Frankie? That's what's so weird about that club. Different circumstances but Fergie got rid of any player he wanted no matter how big.

    P.s. it seems a done deal but I'd rather see Mourinho at City. And Martinez at Everton would be a great test
  6. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    I'd love to see Martinez get the Everton job. I get the sense the club was worried that fans might not accept a manager who's never won anything but relegation battles. (Irony there, since the club itself hasn't won anything since 1995.) It's possible that winning the FA Cup is enough to impress fans and club management (whom we're told have been admirers of his.)

    It's a sad reality of sports that you can fire managers more easily than you can players. It wasn't working with AVB. The persistent suspicion is that the reason why is that major figures like Lampard, Terry, perhaps Ashley Cole, and perhaps a few others, were stout in their opposition to him. Both Terry and Lampard felt threatened: Terry's not fast enough to handle the high line; he was exposed repeatedly and could see the end of his career. And Lampard was being benched an awful lot. It split the dressing room, with Mata and Meireles most obviously AVB supporters.

    With such a schism at the core of the club, the manager has to go. But the owner's well within his rights to hold a grudge against the principles and ease them out in a way that doesn't hurt the club.
  7. Bshelton

    Bshelton Been here awhile

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    I think Rafa helped Chelsea in the long run. You cannot say two substitutions is a legitimate excuse to hate him. He has an interesting footballing brain, and he got one of your worst players (Luiz) and turned him into one of your best. Chelsea could do a lot worse than Rafa. To be honest I rate Rafa higher than I do Mourinho.
  8. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    1/ I can only think of one game in which Rafa's substitutions had a positive effect. One. All the rest have either been neutral or positively harmful. It's a far bigger problem than the two highlights I mentioned.

    2/ Who on this lovely Earth thinks David Luiz was one of Chelsea's worst players? Crazy talk! I give Rafa credit for trying him as a DM, something a lot of us thought would be a good idea almost as soon as he joined the club. So yes, that's a positive. But no way Luiz was a bad player before. Nobody thinks that. He had moments of rash judgment, but he also had moments of genius.

    3/ I'm not Mourinho's biggest fan. But I will gladly trade you Rafa for Jose. I might even give you some money to grease the deal. :D Other than Luiz, Rafa didn't do much different to what di Matteo had been doing in his short stint at the beginning of the season. 4 at the back, two DM, the The Three Amigos weaving all over the pitch and a single striker.

    The #1 reason that Chelsea closed the season strong is because the young players (a) finally got know each other on the pitch and played better together and (b) Hazard became more willing to drop back and defend a wee bit. Mata never will, he seems to be incapable of it. (Oscar and Moses always did.) Hazard's been pushed to defend more both by his club coaches and his national team coach. It looks like the message finally registered.

    Despite Rafa's defensive reputation, the back 4 continue to have problems. I expect that Mourinho will make fixing that one of his top priorities.
  9. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    Today we discovered there are, in fact, three levels of stupid.

    1/ Stupid stupid
    2/ Mario Ballotelli stupid
    3/ Sulley Muntari stupid

    Upset that he was about to be given a yellow card, Sulley Muntari thought the best way to save himself was to arm lock the ref until.... well, maybe he was hoping to talk the ref out of it as he wrestled with him? What an idiot. Yellow changed to red card, of course.


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  10. Bshelton

    Bshelton Been here awhile

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    Ugh, this is how I feel about Chelsea fans at the moment.

    Chelsea draw to Tottenham - "Argh Rafa is the worst manager ever because he subbed x for x"

    Fernando Torres is Chelsea's top scorer - "argh Torres is the biggest flop of all time! Get rid of him for a Championship player!"

    Chelsea beat Man Utd over two legs - "Argh Rafa is the worst boss of all time because he didn't bring on Hazard soon enough to score!"

    Chelsea only has two teams who have conceded less goals than themselves this year (Arsenal and City) - "argh Rafa is a crap defensive manager!!"


    Come on man, Rafa is good and you know it. The only thing I hated was his timing for subs (subbing them on at 85+ mins) and the lack of consistency against lower sides.
    This year you've lost against : Man Utd, Man City, West Brom, West Ham, QPR, Newcastle, and Southampton. Thats a hard pill to take without City and Utd.


    Also, when Luiz got here and started playing CB the goals were flowing in, he was far too rash and everyone who watched knew it.
  11. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    I appreciate that you're exaggerating for effect, but it makes me loathe to engage you in a discussion.

    Rafa's a decent manager but he's at the wrong club and he's doing no more than would be expected of any manager with the wealth of talent at his disposal. Indeed, there's little evidence that di Matteo wouldn't have the club in exactly the same position.

    He has not been a particularly good defensive manager. The number of late goals that Chelsea have conceded is alarming. Spurs being only the latest such example. That game, like others, was won.

    Luiz has made rash challenges in the past and continues to do so, even under Rafa. He just hasn't had Gary Neville drawing them to your attention this season.

    Torres has a decent goals total this season. But anyone who actually watches the matches -- and I never, ever miss one -- will tell you that his pace, his touch, his decision making and his dribbling are really pretty bad. He occasionally passes the ball well. But in terms of overall skills, he's a shadow of himself. He is no longer a premier striker.

    It is to the credit of Chelsea fans, especially those who are able to go to matches at Stamford Bridge, that they have been solidly behind Torres through most of his struggles.
  12. Bshelton

    Bshelton Been here awhile

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    I like your posts, and respect what you say on the forums. But this has to be the absolute WORST thing you've probably ever typed in your life. They have made his life a living hell. Thats almost as bad as saying they've gotten behind Rafa.

    And the exaggeration wasn't terrible. I've got stats mixed in with it!
  13. Bshelton

    Bshelton Been here awhile

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    I'm sorry. That last post was a bit harsh. But I think you have an optimistic view of the atmosphere of the Bridge. I really do value your posts on this forum, you're a great supporter. I just wished all supporters were like you. Unfortunately they are very fickle.
  14. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    Until this season, Torres had gotten huge hands at Stamford Bridge. They'd supported him consistently. Never booed him. Always applauded when he was brought on as a sub. Always cheered when he did something good. Personally, I think they were a bit star struck by him. They really, really wanted him to succeed.

    In the past off-season he made a couple of comments which didn't sound appreciative of the fan support he'd been getting. It's my belief that those comments, along with yet another poor start, combined to sour fans' feeling towards him.

    Now fans are eager to see him and his gigantic, unearned salary go away. He's a drain on the budget.

    On the pitch, he has clearly passed his peak and he will never again be the striker he was for Atletico and Liverpool. I don't know what the injury (or injuries) he picked up in 2009-10, they've always been a bit mysterious about it. It may have been a knee, which would make sense. But its effect was to kill his pace. He was poor for Liverpool and Spain before Chelsea bought him, and he's been mostly poor for Chelsea.

    Turns out that without his pace, the rest of his game falls apart. He's not technically gifted in tight spaces. When he runs at people now, it's like he keeps finding dead end alleys. He doesn't seem to read the game as well as a Lampard, in that he often doesn't run to the right space for a cross. That's very frustrating to watch, balls go begging which he should be on the end of.

    All that's left is his instinct to shoot when the ball arrives at his feet, and even that suffers because of his low confidence. He ends up taking touches he shouldn't.

    All that being said, no Chelsea fan will ever, ever forget this moment.

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  15. JNRobert

    JNRobert Breaking Wind

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    As you brought up Barcelona :D

    I'm continually shocked by the manner with which they seem to needlessly wear Messi out this season. He played on the weekend and aggravated his hamstring in a match that meant nothing - they had already won the league. They have the final of the Kings cup against Madrid on Friday which is a match that is worth winning and by all accounts he won't be fit. :bluduh
    For Messi's sake, let's hope he has the summer off.

    p.s. very interested to see how Pellegrini does at Man City. I thought he did very well with Madrid (he only lost to Barcelona 1-0 which is a lot less than Mourinho on his first few tries) and his record with Malaga and Valencia particularly in Europe is excellent. I'm guessing at a minimum City's expectations are to win the EPL and make it to the quarter finals of the Champions League.
  16. JNRobert

    JNRobert Breaking Wind

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    It seems Torres cost them Drogba too, who is still better striker than Torres has been since joining Chelsea. What an animal Drogba was :clap
  17. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    They do indeed wear Messi down, apparently at his insistence. They shouldn't give into him, lest he burn out Rooney-style (and as I fear Neymar will do.)

    IMHO, Drogba was released at the right time. He was magnificent in the big games. But for the both of his last two seasons at Chelsea, he was frequently injured, missed a lot of time and was often a shadow of his former self. He could raise his game for the big moments. But routine, weekly match play was beyond him. Even in the CL with Galatasaray, you could see his lack of pace and reduced strength. Love the man, but his time had come.

    I agree re: Pellegrini. If he takes the job, looks like an excellent hire by City. Frankly, I'd prefer him over Mourinho at Chelsea. I shall probably regret having written that!

    Copa del Rey is all Madrid, Real beat Barca in the semis. Chance to see Falcao play.
  18. JNRobert

    JNRobert Breaking Wind

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    :uhoh WTF, I knew that. What was I thinking? A little too soon for a senior moment :gerg
  19. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    Lampard does what Drogba wouldn't; he signs a one year contract, reduced wages. Chelsea's been pretty firm with their over-30 policy. If Terry can still walk after his current deal expires, he'll likely be offered the same. Ash signed a similar deal.
  20. JNRobert

    JNRobert Breaking Wind

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    Oh, oh. Lock the doors a certain someone is going to be in here gloating up the place :D

    P.s. both Chelsea's goals were well taken but always nice to see Torres show some of the old form.